28 Jan First-Gen Voices Interview Transcript: Ashton

Interviewers: Lux Darkbloom and Jimena Prieto Andrew
Interview Subject: Ashton Xu

Lux: We are recording an interview for First-Gen Voices. My name is Lux Darkbloom, and we’re here with Jimena Prieto [Andrew], and [to Ashton] I’m gonna have you introduce yourself if that’s okay.

Ashton: Okay. This is Aston Xu.

Lux: Maybe you could tell us a little bit, like, about your background, like if you have siblings, your family, stuff like that.

Ashton: I have two siblings. My parents are both from China. They– my dad immigrated here first, and then my mom immigrated after they kind of met, and then they got married, and then she immigrated here. We grew up in Logan, Utah. I spent most of my time there, but when I was younger, I went to China. I lived in China for a good amount. I think I’m a year or more. I went to kindergarten there. And then, other than that mostly Logan, other than like a summer in Portland, or like grandparents.

Lux: Nice. And you say you have two siblings? Are they older, younger, in between?

Ashton: Yeah, so I have two younger brothers, they’re twins, so– which is, uh, exciting.

Lux: So, first question that’s related to higher ed: What motivated you initially to pursue higher education?

Ashton: So, here’s a little background from my parents. They both didn’t go to college, obviously. They- Yeah, they mostly just finished high school, and my parents pushed me really hard when I was young, so I think I always knew I was going to go to higher ed. But I think it really– yeah, the main thing was my mom. She feels like– she feels like she kind of missed out and wanted higher education. She pushed us really hard to get a higher education, and then kind of live an easier life than they did. So, that’s, like, my biggest motivation. 

Lux: Were there any, like, specific role models or mentors who encouraged you or gave you some guidance through this process?

Ashton: People I looked up to, obviously, are my parents, but then they didn’t really have guidance, because they just didn’t– they’ve never got through this process, so . . .

Lux: Or even support, like–

Ashton: Yeah

Lux: It sounds like your folks are a good source of support.

Ashton: Yeah, they’re a good source of support. I think for mentors, I think honestly, my friends. So, they’re all super smart, and I kind of just followed in their footsteps, and that’s how I feel like I was able to get the– what’s the– academic achievements, but more like the– Yeah, academic skills I earned, like mostly I was just following them, just doing what they were doing, and then asking them questions, and just learning from them, I guess.

Lux: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Like, peers are often some of our very best advisors, truly. So, what year are you in school right now?

Ashton: I’m a sophomore.

Lux: Are you full-time?

Ashton: I am full-time.

Lux: And do you also work or-

Ashton: I am working right now.

Lux: Is that like on a part-time/full-time basis?

Ashton: Yeah, it’s part-time.

Lux: Okay. What kind of work is that?

Ashton: I just started, but I’m working for Vivint Home Security. I’m doing, like, door-to-door sales.

Lux: Oh, that’s gotta be hard.

Ashton: Yeah, that is really hard. It’s um– Yeah, it’s way more difficult– It’s, like, as difficult as you can  imagine, but it’s like– It’s draining, it’s a lot on your mental health, but it’s, like– I honestly think it’s really good. I feel like it’s made me kind of more resilient, maybe stronger, but– Yeah, I do see why– I don’t know, I do see why people say it’s super hard.

Lux: Yeah, I mean, that’s gotta be challenging like– Cold call, knocking on doors, talking to folks you’ve never met before.

Ashton: But, I mean, it makes– So the main reason why I’m doing this is because it makes good money, and it’s just an easier way to- Yeah, it just makes more money than the other jobs out there, so it’s just easier to save up.

Lux:  Yeah, it makes sense that it does. It sounds like they’re aware of how challenging it would be. So, I’m glad that it’s, like, paying well then. Do you– how do you find, like, a balance between school life, work life, family obligations, friends, stuff like that?

Ashton: Yeah, honestly right now, it’s hard. Honestly, right now, I’m not a very good student. I feel like I’m prioritizing my social life and work over school, so my grades are not the best right now. But, I think I also– just growing up, since my parents were always trying to push me, and like, yeah, be better academically, I think I have a really high standard for myself. So I think also, I have decent grades, but like, personally it’s like, I think I could– Like, I know I could do better, I know I could be a better student, so it’s– there’s that.

Lux: Yeah, finding that balance is really, really challenging, especially when you’re, like, gosh– like, you’re working really hard, so having a break and a chance to socialize can be, like, very rejuvenating, you know. Otherwise, it could get kind of draining. Like you mentioned, it does take a toll. It takes a toll on your mental health a little, doesn’t it?

Jimena: With that being said, that you need to remember to, like, give yourself grace because going through higher ed, it’s definitely tough, so–

Lux: It is.

Jimena: Being nice to yourself is always nice to remember.

Lux: Hard to do, though.

Ashton: Yeah

Lux: Really challenging.

Jimena: 100%.

Lux: Could you talk a little bit about what your experience was like being on campus in your first semester as a first-gen student?

Ashton: Yeah, okay. I really feel like, you know, it’s like the–I want to say Imposter Syndrome, I feel like I’ve kind of talked about this with some of my friends before, but I feel like– It’s kind of– I guess it’s kind of selfish, but it’s like– most of these people didn’t have to go through, what I had to go through. It’s like, I fought my way here harder than most of these people, and it’s like– I feel like I saw it as a challenge kind of. I didn’t really– I didn’t feel like an imposter. I feel like I deserve to be here, so I was like– I’m just going to do work really hard and kind of just show, like, why I deserve to be here. And um, yeah, I feel like– yeah, I guess that is selfish. I don’t know what other people have gone through, but like, it’s like– yeah, I feel like I worked hard since high school, middle school, so it’s like– like, I deserve to be here.

Lux: Yeah, I don’t think that’s selfish at all. I think that’s, like, knowing the value of your hard work, truly, truly. And it is really frustrating to see, um, like continuing-generation students seemingly, um, not experience as much struggle, you know, um, because of so many different reasons. A lot of it is campus culture. 

Ashton: I guess just quickly, I don’t–I think it’s more like…It was more like people weren’t focusing on their school. I think a few people– people in middle school they’re like, “Oh, okay, that’s fine. That makes sense.” Right? But then it’s like people that, like, just come to school and they’re just like messing around. They’re just going to parties all the time, and then it’s like- they’re not actually just trying to better themselves, and I’m like– I feel like if they went through more hardship in their life, they would understand why it’s so important.

Lux: Yeah, yeah, I think that totally is valid. That makes a lot of sense. Um, do you think that being like first-gen status has impacted your choice of major or your career path?

Ashton: Yes, yeah. I feel like I have friends that have, like, their parents– So first of all, I’m computer science. I’m, um, I might minor in math, but that’s still up in the air. Like, my friends, they’re going into, like, business stuff just because like– which is like, a notoriously easier major here. And it’s just cuz, like their parents have a company and stuff, they can just go and work for them. They can just put ears or eyes out because they have something to fall back on. Well, for me, it’s like- Is it, you know? It’s like– I don’t have something to fall back on. It’s like basically– Yeah. Like, the major I pick, I have to go through with it, and then that’s, like, what I’m doing.

Lux: Yeah, like you’re not assured a job automatically and like a parent’s company or something. So yeah, I definitely get that. But what has it been like so far? Like, do you– are you enjoying your major?

Ashton: I actually do. So originally I wanted to do– I didn’t know what I was going to do for- until, like– I guess that’s pretty early still, like, senior in high school. I think I’m not sure what I wanted to do just because, growing up, I wanted to do something with math, but then it was– I just saw, like, the wages, it’s just not like as, like, beneficial to, like, major in math other than, like, computer science where there’s, like, a plethora of jobs and just more options. So I do really, I do actually love it and it’s– I feel like I find a lot of joy that I find in math in computer science. Just like problem solving and it’s, like, super logic-based. I’m not a very creative person so it’s a– Normally I– I just like there to be rules and just to follow those rules.

Lux: Has being first generation impacted, like, your ability to pay tuition, or if you have pursued financial aid, to acquire it– if that has impacted it?

Ashton: Fortunately, one of the main reasons I did pick the University of Utah was I got a good scholarship. I got a full ride so I was able to–

Lux: Nice

Ashton: Yeah, so I mean for tuition-wise I guess it wasn’t that bad since I did have a full ride so it’s not like– 

Lux: Congratulations!

Ashton: Thank you

Lux: That is incredible.

Ashton: I’m not gonna lie…I think I was honestly really lucky. I feel like there’s a lot of people, especially the years before that, like, had better resumes than me and they weren’t able to get it so it’s like that was definitely a surprise. And yeah, I mean I will take it so… [Laughter]

Lux: Yeah 

Jimena: 100%

Lux: Yeah, sometimes it’s just really hard to, like, um, yeah, like, see yourself accomplishing something like that and you’re like, “Oh, I don’t know,” and that doubt comes in like, “Is my resume comparable to these other folks?” But I imagine that you had, like, a lot to offer beyond, like, just what was on your resume, and this was a big reason.

Ashton: I hope so I guess.

Lux: Do you think that being first-generation has impacted your academic success or, I mean, if it has, how?

Ashton: I think the main thing is just that it motivates me more. um, I don’t know how much more it has- Actually, I do think joining the First-Gen Space [for the First-Gen Scholars course] was really helpful. I think it was. Especially freshman year, it was so big, it, like– I actually felt that was the first time I found a community here on campus, so yeah I love the first-gen community. I think that has motivated me a lot more.

Lux: Where do you typically hear about, like, resources on campus? Is it most often through First-Gen Scholars? Or do you feel like you’re getting some of that information in other spaces, like in classrooms or stuff like that?

Ashton: Yeah, so most of the time it is just from First-Gen [Scholars], but I’m also part of the Honors community, and so they are also trying to give every– all the resources they can, so it’s like some of the Honors requirements are just going and meeting with the Honors advisors. I get to meet with them every semester, and they’re always trying to help you. So, honestly– so, a lot of people have critiques about the University of Utah, and I agree with those critiques, such as, like, I guess LGBTQ movement, like stuff like that, like, they’re not, like, speaking up enough about it. But then trying to keep students connected, I feel like they do have a lot of resources. There’s a lot of good people on campus, even if, like, there’s not much, like, doesn’t seem like it. Like there’s a lot of–well, I guess–there’s a lot of good people at the lower level of, like, the people that you know, so there’s a lot of people trying to help. And so that’s what I do really like about the University of Utah.

Lux: Nice. What do you think about, like, being a first-generation student in the classroom? Have you ever had, like, a faculty member also say, “Hey, I was first-gen!” Or does it seem to be like there’s any awareness of first-gen students?

Ashton: Honestly, not really. I mean I don’t think I’ve had a professor go like, “Yeah, I was also first-gen.” Um, yeah, I don’t think that’s happened. I also– another thing is I think another that will be like kind of changing my view on the school is that I’m part of a class called a Humans in STEM, and so we’re actively trying to, like, make it better for, like, people on campus and just, like, for STEM students, like, specifically, so those teachers are super-aware. They’re always trying to help. They’re very in touch with, like, how students feel, so it’s– that’s also really good. 

Lux: That’s huge.

Jimena: Yeah, and hard to find.

Lux:  Yeah, yeah, those spaces and those, like, people as resources can be so, you know, kind of buried beneath all the bureaucracy at times. So a lot of questions about, like, your experience through the lens of being a first-gen student, and here’s one more: How has your first-gen status impacted your social and emotional well being at the U?

Ashton: I think, emotionally, I think…[laughs] I’m kind of just bringing up the same things I’ve been bringing up. Yeah, it’s been- emotionally, it just motivates me. Socially, I’ve met a lot of cool people through First-Gen [Scholars] so that’s really cool. Yeah, I mean, I– first of all, I guess it’s just, like, first semester especially, when you’re new [and] when you’re first-gen, it was really cool to just build a community. And, so, I actually had another friend that just– he transferred from Utah State to here because he– he was trying to do that, and the first thing I had him do was try to get him involved with the First-Gen Space. Unfortunately, his classes did not align so, like, he wasn’t able to join, but, like, that’s when– like, since he was also first-gen that was like the first thing I tried to do. Just cuz building the community is so important, and the first-gen community, like, does that. And it’s, like, it’s super welcoming and, like, provides resources. It just gives opportunities, so yeah.

Lux: Nice. Do you feel like there are any, like, negative sides to being first-gen on campus? 

Ashton: I don’t know. I guess– I guess I don’t really look through that first-gen lens that often, but– or I haven’t seen since, like, first coming here. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t really think there’s that many negative sides that I’ve personally felt, well, I guess other than just my parents not really knowing what to do, so it’s, like, I’m just trying to figure out everything myself. But I guess I’m just used to that. I don’t know if that’s just, like, a first-gen thing or, like– I guess it probably is. Just, like, going through high school, like, college applications. And then school–like, college– and then trying to learn, but, like, they’re always there to support me, so it’s, like, even though, like, they’re not helping me, like, they’re, like, supporting me so I can kind of figure out, like, how to do it myself.

Lux: Yeah, that’s huge. Truly huge. I mean, a lot of folks don’t have parental support even, so, like, regardless if they’re continuing-gen or first gen, and that sure makes a significant impact . . .

Ashton: It does.

Lux: …on your ability to succeed academically, I think. So, feeling a sense of belonging in college has a big, significant impact on a student’s academic success. Do you feel like there’s a good sense of belonging for you personally at the U?

Ashton: Yeah, again, it’s just like after I found, like, the First-Gen Space, I felt like I started seeing that belonging. Obviously, like everybody is, like, this when they first come to the University of Utah. Going to college, in general, it’s like– you’re in a brand new area. You don’t know– mostly you don’t know that many people, and– so, yeah, it’s just like finding that first– finding the first-gen community, and then slowly building just, like, friend groups, just, like- just friends and then– yeah, I feel like I do find belonging here now. I feel like it’s been pretty good, and also just being super active and participating in anything you can that’s what I think- that helped a lot just because I was, like, I knew I wanted to find a place of belonging so I was joining, like, all the clubs, like, I was, like, interested in, just trying to do whatever I could to, like, find a kind of community.

Lux: So, if you were to give advice to a student who is considering higher ed as a first-gen student, what guidance or advice or even just, like, feedback, generally, would you think is important for that kind of- uh, for a person in that situation?

Ashton: So I’ve actually been thinking about this question a lot. I feel like this is um– biggest thing, I feel like, is family. So I’m always trying to help out. And my brothers. They’re young– they’re both younger. They’re going to college next year, so I’ve been– honestly, like, that’s, like, my biggest thing. I’m just trying to make sure my brothers are doing good, and so, I guess. I kind of bring this up some– I guess I don’t bring this up at all, but it’s, like, the main reason, I guess– one of the biggest reasons I’m here is because, I feel like, we were getting financial and stuff so I could have gone to, like– I got into Georgia Tech so I could have gone there. But it just– it just would’ve been super expensive, and I was kind of looking out- I want to make sure that my brothers are able to go where they want to go, so I kind of took this chance– I took this college– like it’s been wonderful experience for me, but, like, I kind of took this just so my parents did have the financial room to be able to let my brothers kind of go where they want to go.

Lux: Yeah

Ashton: So that was really big and then– guidance? I feel like– so right now they are trying to pick colleges and, like I said, fortunately, I was able to get this good scholarship and kind of pick a school that’s cheaper. So they’re going to go– so one of them might go somewhere more expensive; the other one is just thinking about, is confus– doesn’t know about University of Utah or University of Arizona. And the biggest thing I was telling him is, you should try and look for, like, the social, like, whichever community you think would be best.

Lux: Yeah.

Ashton: And so that’s what I was kind of telling him. And I think that, yeah, it is super important for, like, the academic side, but, like, as long as they find a community that, like, support them, then they’ll do well, academically.

Lux: Totally, yeah. [To Jimena] Is there anything that you would like to add that’s outside of that– like the questions that we’ve talked about?

Jimena: Oh, wait. I guess I do have a question. Isn’t computer science within the business school? Or what college is that with?

Ashton: College of engineering.

Jimena: College of engineering. How has that been, like with the college of engineering? Because we’ve had some students talk about, like, their experience with the business school, but not– none really with the engineering.

Ashton: Okay, yeah…so this is, this is what we kind of work about in Humans in STEM. So we’re kind of– we did a lot of resear– We read a lot of stuff about it, and there’s not that much support for, like, minority students, and, um, one of the biggest things is there’s a higher dropout rate for first-gen students and minorities in engineering just because there’s– it’s so fast-pace. There’s just a lot of things they expected you to learn in high school, when a lot of people didn’t have that support or that– those resources in high school, and so that increases the dropout, especially when they don’t have the support, like, they don’t have as much support. They haven’t had parents that’ve gone through what they needed- like, what they need to know and so even I’ve seen it in person. Like a lot of my–not a lot–a few of my low-income friends have had to switch majors just because it was too difficult. And so the biggest thing we’re trying to talk about is maybe, like, more mentorship, just, like, first-gen stuff. And so that’s why I thought it’s– that’s why I’m bringing up that it’s super important for communities just because– engineering is not– it’s a really hard major for first-gen students. And so it’s super important for people to, kind of– I guess we were talking about, like– bringing it up earlier, like, obviously, college–we want to fix the problems and want to start helping people that are in college right now, but it’s something that we need– it’s like a systemic thing.

Lux: Yeah.

Ashton: People need to start helping first-gen students, like, earlier, like middle school– like elementary, middle school, high school– just being able to, like, help them gain the knowledge that they need, and then go to college just so then they have that, like, that foundation. So, yeah. I’m trying to think about if there’s anything else. We’ve kind of– which, like, the class is super eye-opening. We just, like, go over– each week, we kind of go over different– different nuanced topics kind of. This week, we’re talking about– or last week, we talked about– I don’t know. It’s just, like, we always talk, like– it’s like with financial need, like, kids’ needs, financial need– We talk about LGBTQ community. We talked about Native Americans, how, like, they’re disadvantaged. We talk about, like, women in STEM, like the history of that. We talk about– I don’t know. It’s just a lot of stuff we’re trying to– it’s just like trying to build awareness about situations like these and so I feel like I’m very– that’s why I feel like there’s– I’ve been, luckily, I’m able to find these niche kind of communities. I want to say, like, that class is really niche, but, like, first-gen, as a whole, is becoming less niche. And we, like– It’s super popular. I feel like the classes are really big.

Jimena: Yeah, they’ve really grown this year, so hopefully…

Lux: They really have. 

Jimena: …they keep growing and get a lot of numbers and everything.

Lux: Yeah, we do have a huge percentage of first-gen students on campus. Pretty massive.

Jimena: Yeah, so the classes can definitely keep growing to, like, super huge.

Lux: Yeah, I think so. I think it’s so interesting–the class you’re doing–the humans in STEM, because you don’t really hear a lot about these issues being discussed by students or faculty–especially, especially not of faculty.

Jimena: That’s cool that the engineering college is, like, offering this class because, like, it’s very different.

Ashton: I think it’s…yeah, it’s really nice. So, it’s Claudia de Grandi, I guess that’s the teacher that’s doing it. She’s an amazing teacher and so– but she’s a physics professor, and I don’t know if that’s college of engineering, but still. Yeah, it’s really nice for, like, STEM like– kind of be– a STEM class to be kind of offering this, and it’s, uh, yeah, it’s a really nice class. And then, I guess, back to your questions, like engineering in general, yeah, just– We need– It’s hard. It’s hard. I think there needs to be that, like, foundation or else . . .

Lux: Yeah, I’ve heard that a lot myself, yeah.

Ashton: . . . it’s just not really sustainable.

Jimena: I could vouch for that. I was a BME [biomedical engineering] major my first year. I was like, “Mm, mmm. Not doing it,” and I changed my major cuz it was really difficult, and very competitive, and not a lot of support. So I was like, “Oh, I can’t do this.”

Ashton: I guess–

Lux: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Ashton: Yeah, it was one more thing that, I guess, maybe I would recommend computer science if you wanted to switch to that major just because I’ve heard, um, for the medical ones, it’s very competitive, like, it’s like– I don’t know how true it is, but, like, in the class, they’re very open. Like, people talk about how, like, oh, there’s some– they know a girl that would, like, tell people, like, the wrong stuff to study just, like, they could do better. But . . .

Lux: Wow!

Ashton: …like just because it’s, like, based on, like, percentages, but computer science is very different. It’s very…

Jimena: Oh my god, I didn’t know this…

Lux: It’s just startling, yeah.

Ashton: Yeah, so, it’s a…very cutthroat out there. But computer science– it’s a very welcoming community. I feel like people– the professor is always–like, the one I have currently is, like, always just encouraging people to talk to each other, like, he’s encouraging people to work together so there’s some less of that, like, um “Top 10 students get an A, Top 20 students get an A-minus” or something like that, but ours is just, like, you get an A, like, depending on how good you do in class, you get an A/A minus so it’s, like, it’s a lot less competitive. And it’s much more…it’s a very welcoming community, so…

Lux: Yeah, that having that…environment that’s that competitive would just add a whole thick layer of stress to everything. [laughs]

Ashton: Yeah, I would not…

Jimena: It is stressful because I did it for a year…

Ashton I guess I do– I guess saying that, though, there still– there is under-representation by woman–

Lux: Yeah, absolutely.

Ashton: So yeah. So it’s, like, my– my view– it’s just because I’m a male, and, like, honestly, I’m actually, like, almost in the majority now. Like, I feel like there’s a lot of Asian kids, like, in that class so it’s like– those numbers are really high, but it’s like we’re looking at this in Humans in STEM, we’re looking at the numbers. Only like 14 percent of computer science majors are women. So, that’s a very low number, and I feel like– I know some friends in there, and it’s like, they– I’ve heard it’s pretty hard, so . . .

Lux: That, that number has seen a lot of growth, though, in the past, like, 15 years. 

Ashton: Yup.

Jimena: Yay!

Ashton: [laughs]

Lux: It used to be about 3 percent when I started here.

Ashton: Dang.

Lux: Yeah, so…[laughs] we’re good. Getting there very, very slowly…

Jimena: It’s moving…

Ashton: Yeah, slowly, but it’s– well, another thing my friend was telling me is, like, some of the earliest, like, languages were created by woman, like computer scientists, or, like, some of the best, like, the most notable, most influential are also women, which is very strange to see not that many women in computer science here. So I guess another– just more facts I guess I can kind of give is that we have a student from– oh, I don’t know if you guys know [unintelligible]? He was running for– okay, well, he’s from–I don’t want to butcher it–so he’s from Europe. He’s European, and there women dominate the STEM fields

Lux: Wow.

Ashton: And it’s just because– he said that the Communist Party there kind of encouraged and, like, helped give resources to women to succeed in STEM, so almost all STEM fields are, yeah, a majority women. And then there’s like– there’s still male-dominated fields, which are, like, like, like, lawyers, politicians, which they see as more male-dominant, but it’s like super interesting. Like, so we could have that, It’s like– it’s like the representation could be there, it’s just that society right now is not really– well, in the United States it’s– there’s that, like, esteem, I guess, there, and so people, where, whereas women could do equally well as well as men do in those– in these fields, so . . .

Lux:  Well, that’s like a really helpful perspective, too. We don’t usually like get to hear about, like, the makeup of these programs, but you’re totally right, like, there’s a huge, huge gap in folks in that field who are not cis-, het- white guys, too, reall…but, anyhow, I think that this about wraps us up.

Ashton: Awesome. Okay.

Lux: Um, is there anything else you want to add?

Ashton: I think that’s it for now, but also I, I don’t know if you can tell, but I love talking, so…

Lux: That’s great! That’s great!

Ashton: I’m always kind of yapping, so, it’s– yeah, I think that’s it.