Interviewer: Lux Darkbloom
Interview Subject: Kai Zendejas 

Lux: Thank you so much for meeting with me today. To start out, could you please tell me a little bit about your life, your story, your name, of course, and basically just what you would like listeners to know about you? 

Kai: Yeah, my name is Kai, and I’m a second-year student here at the U, first-generation and whatnot. I’m studying Japanese and Spanish right now. I’m doing a double major in those, and I really like it. And I’m currently applying for the National Critical Languages Scholarship, so I’m working with the Office of Nationally Competitive Scholarships to get the application done and over with. And yeah, I mean, what else do you want to know? 

Lux: That is a great place to start, I think. So you mentioned that you are– is it a double major in language then? 

Kai: Yes, in Japanese and Spanish. 

Lux: That is so cool. How did you decide. . . How did you choose your majors? 

Kai: With Spanish, that was something that I felt like I had a responsibility to do. And I can’t say it’s true for everybody, but I am half-white and half-Mexican. And I actually didn’t learn Spanish growing up, even though my family spoke it. And I always felt this sort of not belonging because of that. And my family made that very clear to me as well, that I didn’t really belong, unfortunately. Because of my skin color. I wasn’t as dark as everybody else. And because I didn’t know Spanish and because I wasn’t connected with my culture. So I always felt like I really needed to learn Spanish to try and reconnect with that part of myself. And not necessarily with my family anymore. I’m not in contact with them. But I do still think that it’s important to sort of have that side of myself and acknowledge it and not let it go unacknowledged, just because of how other people perceive me as looking white, acting white, or however people want to describe that. And then Japanese was totally a passion. I just really loved learning it. And I have a whole story on why I went to Japan a couple times in high school. And it’s this whole thing, but I really, really found a passion for it, like for no other thing. And I just wanted to continue it in college. 

Lux: That is so cool. And holy mackerel, do we have a lot in common. We’ll have to connect after this interview and talk some more. But coming at it from a very similar place, I’m also half-Mexican, and I also am learning Spanish. But yeah, that is so cool. We’ve got this immediate thing in common. Are you going to school full-time or part-time right now? 

Kai: I’m going to school full-time. 

Lux: So thinking back to when you first made the decision to go to college, were there any specific people–a teacher, a family member–or even a specific experience that played a role in your choice to go to college? 

Kai: It was a lot of things. I actually wasn’t sure if I was going to go to college. It was a pretty hard decision for me because the academic side of myself, of course, wanted to go to college. And everybody, they have all those programs in high school for college readiness and to get you on track. I did a little bit of the TRIO program back in middle school that was for first-gen scholars. And I got to do some really cool things. So I was always encouraged to go to college.

But by the time I was getting to my junior and my senior year, specifically in my junior year, I started experiencing homelessness for a little while. That really made me drop my academics like crazy. I actually basically failed all of my classes junior year of high school. And I wasn’t sure how far I was going to go. So I was leaning towards going to the military and just doing that because I didn’t know what else to do with myself. But after I went to Japan–which I went the first time in the summer between junior and senior year–and then I went again after I graduated high school, I took a gap year. I knew for certain that I really wanted to go to college and pursue education. I don’t think I was cut out for the military.

Lux: I think that’s such an interesting path, too. Without even being sure of what you wanted your future to look like, I love that you were so open to exploring these different options like, “Well, maybe this is a good fit. Maybe this is a good fit.” I think that’s a very familiar experience for a lot of folks. So you said you’re in your second year in school, is that right? 

Kai: Yeah, I’m a second-year student. 

Lux: Could you talk about what it was like when you first got to campus? Maybe your very first semester. 

Kai: So my first experience being on campus was actually for orientation. They went really, really hard on orientation during my year. When my boyfriend went a year after me, they did not do the whole campus tour or make you stay overnight like they did for mine. But they made me stay overnight, and we explored the entire campus. So by the time I already got on campus for my first day of school, I was actually pretty familiar with the buildings, fortunately, and I didn’t have too much trouble finding my classes or anything. Even the couple times when I got lost, I just looked at those pillars that they have throughout campus with maps and building names and whatnot and used those to get around for maybe the first week. But after that, you really don’t need it. 

Lux: Yeah, it becomes pretty second nature almost after that first week. It can be quite a challenging campus to navigate though, size-wise, right? So we talked about this very, very briefly with your choice of major, but I’m wondering what some of the influences were as far as thinking about your future career path and what you want to do with your majors. 

Kai: Yeah, I felt very passionate about language learning once I began learning Japanese because it was the first time in my life I felt like I was learning something without stakes necessarily. A lot of what you learn in middle and high school, you always gotta pass your classes. You gotta learn this and that you can pass that exam, and there’s always some sort of stake, some sort of way to fail. And even with Spanish, even when that wasn’t something that I was taking in school, when I tried to learn it on my own, and then I would still fail to understand or speak with my family, it still felt like there was a stake there. There was something that I had to achieve. Like a goalpost that kept getting moved further and further and further, and I wasn’t meeting it. But with Japanese, it felt like something that I was actually only gonna do as a hobby at first. And I started doing it, and I felt like I wanted to take it seriously, not for anybody else, but just for myself. And that was something I hadn’t really experienced with how traditional schooling, public school is. And it’s sort of trying to push everybody along into the next grade, into the next class. So I got really excited about it, and it felt like something new that was very specific to me, a part of my identity that I hadn’t explored before. So continuing on that, when I went the second time and I studied, then I was pretty certain by the end of it that I want to use this, and I want to pursue a career using this, whether that be in technical translation, in simultaneous or conference interpretation, or video game localization. There’s so many pathways, and it felt like something that I really wanted to look into. Then there were moments where I got scared because everybody started saying, “Oh, AI is going to take your job. Google Translate is going to make learning new languages obsolete.” So I got scared, and I wasn’t sure. And so I decided for one of my classes– we had to do a research project, but it could be on anything that you wanted. No limitations, you just had to research it. And you could present it any way you wanted, too. It didn’t matter how. A podcast, a presentation, a document. So I decided to use that as a way to explore whether my career would actually be worth it. And I got with one of my friends who’s currently a paralegal at a law firm, but she also does interpretation and translation of court documents for clients because she works at a law firm that specializes in immigration. And she speaks Spanish fluently, and she’s also currently learning Arabic. So I got with her, and I decided to do a podcast where I researched a lot of the job prospects and a lot of these organizations that were specific to translators and interpreters and how they feel about the career field moving forward. And then also got some of her insight. And we honestly came to the conclusion that AI will be a very useful tool, but it does not understand nuance. It is not at a point where it can be powered without enough resources or without little resources. It just isn’t good enough to really replace me. And that made me further set, “okay, I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to work in this field and I’m not going to be scared when other people read me a headline because I know what’s actually true.”

Lux: Yeah, it’s so, so true. And I mean, as far as thinking about translation, even in the humanities, for example, translating literature–that is something that, I mean, as far as I’m concerned, can never be replaced by AI. It’s so nuanced, like you said, and does require a human touch. It requires humanity to interpret with the most accuracy, but yeah. I also love the way that you talked about the difference between getting through a grade and learning and what that process is like with language acquisition. That is so cool. So changing directions just a little bit, I want to kind of look at the practical aspects of your college journey. So as far as the financial side of college goes, we know that that can be a pretty huge undertaking, especially at our university where tuition is so high and ever increasing, it feels. Totally my opinion. But it definitely adds another layer of complexity to that as a first-gen student navigating not just university systems, but the financial systems connected to it. Could you talk about what your journey with paying for your education has been like and what role, if any, having a job has played or scholarships or anything along those lines? 

Kai: Yeah, finances were the biggest barrier for a while before I got into university, actually. I wasn’t sure if I was going to go because also I wasn’t sure if I could pay for it or if I would qualify for enough scholarships or FAFSA and whatnot. So I wasn’t really banking on anything. I was expecting to go into debt. I did my orientation and found out on my orientation day, which was two to three weeks before university started for my first year, I got an email that I got the For Utah scholarship, and then I also got some state grants, and I also got my FAFSA. So my first semester was completely paid for, in fact overpaid, and then I just got the extra money in my bank account. So I got really lucky, but I only got that For Utah because I applied early to the University of Utah. When you apply by the early action deadline, you get entered into these scholarships just automatically and it’s a merit-based/need-based scholarship that I ended up getting, and it covers the entirety of whatever is remaining of tuition after FAFSA and after grants and everything else. So, first and second semesters were fine. This most recent semester, I did have a little bit of extra, but it was only $200 that I had to pay out of pocket. So it wasn’t too bad, fortunately. It was just one of my classes that had really high fees for the textbook or something. So university for me has actually been really affordable because I got that scholarship, and it goes for all four years as long as you just don’t max out past 18 credits. So I can do up to 18 credits per term. That’s fully covered by that and then anything after that I pay myself, but who would want to do more than that amount of credit hours? So it has been a little bit of a barrier though because I’m still trying to pay for things on campus, like food sometimes or just keeping myself stocked at home with personal expenses and bills, like paying my own rent and whatnot has been a little more difficult. My first year I worked full-time while I was a full-time student, and that was incredibly difficult. This time around, I’m working 30 hours a week while I’m still a full-time student, and it’s a little more manageable. But the budget is still tight. 

Lux: And so you got notified that you were awarded the For Utah scholarship only a few weeks before classes started? 

Kai: Yes. So I was really scared, and I wasn’t sure whether or not I was going to continue. I went to orientation because I needed to. And if I wanted to sign up for classes soon–I wanted to, you have to do orientation. So I still went to that, but I was still at a point in my mind where I wasn’t sure whether I was going to be able to enter university. And that was because actually only a couple weeks prior to that, I was actually kicked out of my house. And my plan was to get a co-signer on a loan because I was only 18. I was fresh out of high school still, and I didn’t have a credit score. And my dad was going to co-sign on my loan, and then he kicked me out and said he wasn’t going to help me with anything and stopped speaking to me. So I was really in limbo. I wasn’t sure what was going to happen, if I was going to go or not, but I got really lucky. I was a little frustrated that I got that email so late though.

Lux: That is so much pressure. My goodness, that’s just a lot going on at one time for somebody who’s just starting out in college too. I’m so sorry that that happened. That is a lot to hold while balancing so many other priorities, too. I’m glad that you are now in a safe place, too. As far as your work goes, you mentioned you work 30 hours a week. That’s still a lot, my goodness. And what kind of work is it you’re doing? 

Kai: Right now I am a manager at a spa, and I get really flexible hours only because it’s a small business and it’s family-owned by just this small family. I’m their only employee. And I guess they’ve really taken a liking to me, and I really like them.We’ve gotten really close, just me with the whole family. So I can basically just tell them what hours I want to work any given week or day, and they just make it work. So I got in a really lucky situation, work-wise. I’ve gone through a few jobs already in college actually, and all the other ones I had to leave because scheduling wasn’t very flexible. I just couldn’t keep up with doing full-time hours and [being a] full-time student. I was a daycare teacher for my whole first year of college, and that was just too much, working full-time and working with kids and doing school. So this job has afforded me a lot more flexibility, especially because when it’s not busy, I’m allowed to do homework. My bosses are very understanding. “You don’t have clients? You can do homework. You don’t have work to do? You can do homework. You don’t have homework? You can watch a show.” Just to be quiet so it’s not super obvious. 

Lux: I’m so glad that you found this connection. It sounds like you’re really resourceful. I mean, navigating not just full-time work, but working with children is taxing in a way that’s really different from other kinds of work and, yeah, kudos to you. That is incredible.

Kai: The kids are great, so don’t get me wrong about that. I love them. And in a more supportive environment, I would love to work with children. But unfortunately, childcare is not as forgiving as some other industries. 

Lux: Yeah, I mean, the flexibility that you need in order to be able to have a class schedule, that is very challenging. I also worked full-time when I was a full-time student, and there’s so much driving back and forth and so, so many times where your lunch is a class.

Kai: I didn’t even mention, actually, I didn’t even have a car for my first year of college, so I was fully relying on public transit for everything. So public transit, full-time job, full-time student, and trying to do everything, and it was a lot. 

Lux: It is a lot. You did it, though. You did it, and you made it through. And it just shows how resilient you are, truly. So our next few questions are going to focus more on the relationships and support systems that have helped you with navigating your college experience, if there have been experiences like that. So I was wondering what are the key factors or supports that you’ve found to be most helpful as a college student, if you have found on-campus support that was useful? 

Kai: Oh, on-campus support? 

Lux: Or off-campus too, too. 

Kai: Okay, because I can name both. For on-campus support, I currently have begun recently utilizing the FeedU Pantry, which . . . I’ve only went once and, I mean, it had a few things that seemed good. And it saves some money on groceries, and that’s really helpful. I also do really like communicating with my advisor. I have two advisors, but one of them is one that I mainly go to. Her name is Olivia Davis, so shout out. And she is super nice and funny and is just a joy to chat with and helps me with finding scholarships or club activities or on-campus things and financial resources. Karen Marsh is another really good one. I believe she works a lot with students who are having financial difficulties, and I have chatted with her a couple times, and she’s told me about a few things on campus as well. So those are really great resources.There’s a lot of good people on campus who are happy to help and get things moving for students who have less opportunities than others. But off-campus, I found the best support system has been with my boyfriend’s family, who’ve basically become my family. My kind of story is immediately before college, I was kicked out of my house. I was disowned, and kind of my dad cut contact with me. My mom isn’t really in my life, and I don’t have siblings or anything. And then I wasn’t close with any extended family either, aside from two cousins because the rest of them don’t like me because I’m mixed, and they unfortunately have their own opinions about that. So I didn’t really know where to go when I got kicked out. And I was pretty scared and whatnot. So I reached out to my boyfriend, who I’ve been with since high school and we’re still together and I called him. He had a car. He came and picked me up. I told him what happened. I said, “I don’t know where to go. I don’t know what to do. Could I maybe ask your parents? I don’t want to be a burden, but I mean, if it’s not your parents, it’s going to be a shelter.” So we drove to his house. I told his parents. His parents immediately saw me and knew something happened. And they were like, “What’s going on?” I sat down with them. I told them everything that happened. They listened to me. They were very kind to me. And they offered me just a space to kind of stay for a little while. And then I kept being worried about like, “When are you going to kick me out? When do you want me to go?” And they made it very clear to me, “We’re not going to kick you out. We’re not giving you a set time frame to go. Just go to school, and go to work, and save up money. And when you feel like you’re ready to move out, then you can move out.” So they cleared out an extra storage room that they had and turned it into my bedroom. And then I just stayed there. I lived with them for actually, I think, exactly one year before I saved up enough and I got my own place. And so now I live at my own place, but I’m always over there. I’m basically still kind of living there because I’m always over and hanging out. And the best thing for me, though, for being a student, because I know I can live on my own, but it’s not easy to live on my own as I’m doing now and always figuring out dinner, and then still trying to get enough sleep, and do all the other things. It is nice having basically a new family to be able to call and say, “Hey, I have so much homework to do. Can I come over tonight?” And they’ll say, “Yeah, we’ll have a plate waiting for you on the dinner table.” And that’s been the most important thing. 

Lux: That is amazing. I’m so happy that this chosen family showed up for you at just the right time. 

Kai: Yeah. That’s the word I was looking for. 

Lux: Yeah. It’s so important. It is so important. And estrangement is brutal. It is just a pretty fracturing experience as far as your sense of self can be really impacted by it. So I’m just really glad that you had this opportunity and these folks who sound like an amazing chosen family. 

Kai: They’re really sweet. I love them like a mom and dad, honestly. I don’t call them that, but they know that’s how I see them. 

Lux: Yeah. That’s so huge. So taking another shift in direction, we’ll kind of do this throughout the conversation, but feel free to redirect me if you’re like, “Wait, I want to say more about this.” But as far as that first-gen status, do you feel like that has shaped your academic journey in any way? Like being the first in your family, being so independent and supporting yourself through this experience. Do you feel that status has had a meaningful impact on what your journey’s been like?

Kai: Yeah, it made it different at first because when I went into college, I had an idea of what to expect only because I took some AP classes in high school and the fast pacing of those. Honestly, AP classes are harder than college classes. I don’t know why they do it like that, but that sort of prepared me for the rigor. And when I went to Japan and I went to school there, I did an intensive Japanese course for one month at one time and then six months at another. And the pacing of that prepared me for college classes themselves. But for seeking out resources, for knowing who to talk to, for knowing how GPA works and all these other things, that came through communicating with people who did have college experience. And that was with my boyfriend’s family because his parents were both in college. And so I didn’t really know a lot. I didn’t even know how loans worked or scholarships. I didn’t know the difference between scholarships and financial aid. And I had to ask a lot of questions all the time. Like my boyfriend would say something and be like, “Oh, you know, I’m just waiting for the FAFSA to come and then I’ll see this and that.” And I’m like, “I don’t know what any of this means. I’m doing it, but I don’t know what it means and how things are going to go.” So it was like getting the ball rolling. That was the hardest part, learning how to search for resources because there’s always going to be new things. You’re never going to know everything unless you’re, like, an advisor and that’s, like, your job. But as a student, you’re never going to know everything that’s going on around campus or how to do everything. But you have to know how to look for the people who do and then connect with them accordingly.So other alumni and advisors are your best bet. 

Lux: Totally. Have you had any connections with faculty members who’ve been helpful in that way? 

Kai: With faculty? Yes. Specifically, actually, my Japanese professor, I’ve had both my first and second year. Her name is Sae Kawase, and she is incredible at getting resources out to all of us students. She has emails around the clock that send out, “Hey, this new scholarship just opened up.” She actually was the one who emailed the whole class about the Critical Languages Scholarship from the government that I’d never heard of before. But the day it opened, she sent out an email, “Hey, if anybody’s interested in this, you can do this. If anybody’s interested in this, you can do this.” She has all these, and she has a Discord server that she made where, even outside of class, people can ask language questions and reach out to her and she’ll answer it for everybody to see. So everybody can have that question answered or some sort of resource. And she’s just great. She’s seriously so amazing at compiling resources and all these other things. I was really surprised to find out she’s not the head of her department because she is on top of it. 

Lux: Do you know if she’s first-gen? 

Kai: I have no idea. I have zero idea. 

Lux: I’m so curious. That is really, really great, though. I’ve heard a wide spectrum of experiences ranging from “I’ve never had a faculty member even try to connect with me” to experiences like yours. You’re like, “Wow, this faculty member really cares.” 

Kai: Yeah, she’s incredible. Another one, too. I don’t know if he’s faculty. He might just be a grad student, actually, but his name is Motomu Yoshioka. And he’s another really good professor in my experience. I’ve had him this semester and with giving feedback for one of our essays instead of just writing on it, he actually encouraged everybody to meet him outside of class in a cafe, or before or after class in the building and just talk for however long you need to about feedback and what you can do better. He wanted to meet with everybody individually, and I really appreciated that, too. So actually, both of them happen to be in the Japanese department, which is funny, but they’re both really good resources. 

Lux: They sound amazing. Honestly, I love the idea of having a Discord server, too, so that everybody has access to those questions. It’s kind of like a living FAQ almost. That’s really smart. Would you say that you’ve had any mentors or role models, either, you know, within higher ed or outside? Like you mentioned your boyfriend’s parents being really instrumental in helping you get your feet on the ground. I’m wondering if you have any mentors or support people who kind of guide you when you’ve got those questions that your advisor is unable to help you with or just at any point of need, you know?

Kai: I don’t know if I would say I have a mentor, specifically. There’s not a lot of people that I know who are even in the same classes, but have maybe the same majors as far as the language combination I’m studying, too. Actually now, I think about it, there was one. I only have met her once, but her name is Tanya Flores and she works here at the U as well. And she does a lot of research into Japanese and Spanish bilinguals. And I got to meet with her, and she told me about her research, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. And then I wanted to assist her and she said “no” because she recruits from a specific class that I’m not in. But she was really interesting, and I would like to look into having her more as a mentor and staying connected with her, specific for my language pair, because she’s one on faculty who I know that studies specifically that and researches that pair. But yeah, I wouldn’t say really anybody else because most people, they can give me general college advice, but when it comes to languages, a lot of people don’t really know what they’re talking about. 

Lux: Yeah. And that’s such a unique combination. That’s impressive that you found a faculty member who is doing exactly that. I love that. And, yeah, like you said, while they recruit from a particular class to for research assistants and stuff, I think having that connection is still so, so valuable. Even outside of that prescribed mentor/mentee kind of relationship, having a person who gets your passion for these languages and just how unique that combo is. I love that. That’s so cool. So navigating this university as a first-gen student, of course, well, any university as a first gen student, there’s going to be a lot of challenges, a lot of opportunities, and I’m curious to hear about your experience with being first-gen, and how, if at all, that has impacted your social or your emotional well-being. 

Kai: For my first year, yes, 100 percent. I was not doing well my first year, and I think it also had to do with the fact that I had to save up, and I had to work all these hours at the daycare. So my first two semesters were basically: I had two morning classes, and then I would run out of my second class all the way down to Trax. I would have to run all the way down to the train or down to the bus stop and then get on the bus as soon as I got there. I would make it right on time and then take it directly to work. And then maybe I might be able to stop at a grocery store that’s right across the street from my work and grab a small snack and then just eat it. But you have to eat it quickly before you go in. Not because I would get in trouble for eating, but because the kids are always wanting what you’re eating and being like, “I want some.” And then you’re like, “No, this is so gross, actually. You don’t want it.” [Laughs] And it was kind of like that. So my first year, I felt so alone and isolated because I felt like I was doing everything I could to try and not be a burden to my boyfriend’s family and let them know that I’m working hard to save up my money. Let them know that I’m not half-assing it. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Kai: And I felt super isolated. I didn’t really make any friends my first year. I didn’t participate in any club things. I just worked, worked, worked, did homework, work, work, work some more. Over the summer, I realized that it was really, really detrimental for me because I was still recovering from the loss of my whole family, essentially, and trying to cope with being on my own now and accepting this new chosen family and believing them when they say that they care about me. And so I started seeking out help for myself, mental health help, and getting a therapist and most recently a psychiatrist as well. And then also starting to set up my annual checkups, getting a primary doctor, getting a dentist. I actually worked at a dentist office, so that was the easy part for a time because I ended up working at one and getting myself just fully situated with my health. So then I could focus on maybe also making friends later because I just felt like everything was holding me back. Even if work wasn’t holding me back, school was holding me back. And if school wasn’t holding me back, my own head was holding me back. I was just really lonely. And so I started just seeking out help and I got really cheap insurance. And getting a therapist. And then my therapist recommended me a really good resource that is for mostly adults, so this wouldn’t really be applicable to high schoolers per se, but for anybody 18 and up, there’s a Discord server. It’s called SLC Meetups, and it has tens of thousands of people on there all throughout Salt Lake City and the Salt Lake City area. And people organize regular events. And one of the events that I found on there was a Japanese language table that meets at Sandy Library every week. So I thought that looked interesting and I thought I might go. Just like, “Okay, maybe I’ll start making friends.” This was in this last summer. “Maybe I’ll start making friends. Maybe I’ll find something…I’ll kind of come out of my shell and start to enjoy life a little more, university life.” And I went and half the people there were people that were in my Japanese class from the last two semesters. I was so stuck in my head for the whole semester and always working. I never learned anyone’s names. I didn’t really know anybody that well. So it was really weird to me that when I walked in, I recognized all their faces and everyone went, “Kai! What’s up? You come to this too?” And I was like, “I don’t know any of your guys’ names, but hey!” And then I got really close with a few people in there, and we’re still taking classes together now. And I regularly hang out with them and go to the gym with them now. And I’ve actually changed my work hours to work a little less so I have more time to go to that table every week, to go to the gym with my friends, to go to the occasional party. So SLC Meetups is really good. And it led to me connecting with people outside of campus and with more people on campus, coincidentally. 

Lux: That is so wild. I would have been genuinely so shocked walking into that group. 

Kai: I was really shocked. I was like, “What is happening? What is going on here?” I thought I was going to meet a bunch of random people, and then it was already a ton of people that I kind of knew and I got to know way better because now it was outside of a classroom setting. So clubs are really good. I definitely am going to be joining a club soon. There’s so many on campus. 

Lux: There really are. 

Kai: But I think that a myth that a lot of people hold, unfortunately, is that you’re going to make friends in the classroom. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily always the case because everybody’s so focused on doing their thing. And then you’ve got these 15 minute intervals where a lot of people have classes back to back and they gotta get to their next class. I wouldn’t count on that for engaging campus life. You gotta join a club or you gotta join something outside of school, or you just got to be somewhere regularly and start talking to people. But classrooms, they’re not really it for making friends. 

Lux: I think that is really, really wise because that is a thing that you hear a lot. “You’ll go to college, you’ll meet a bunch of new people, you’ll make tons of friends.”

Kai: But you have to seek that out. You can’t expect it to happen to you, which for a long time I did because of that exact advice. And I think better advice would be you’re going to go to college and then you’re going to start wanting to get involved in things and go to clubs and you’re going to have to go out of your way a little bit, but then people are going to go out of their way for you, too. And that’s how you’ll make those really good friendships. 

Lux: Yeah. I think that is such good advice. And it’s funny, I’ve never heard anybody capture it so well. It really is an ongoing myth that friendships will just land at your feet because you go to class. But like you said, everybody is pretty focused, got their heads down in their work. And yeah, like with your schedule, you’re literally running to catch the tracks. But we do have a lot of clubs, and I think that’s really cool because there are so many interest-based ones, identity-based ones. I’m wondering, too, even about groups like Latinos in Action might be a really great way to make new connections, too. Are you involved in First-Generation Scholars or any of the other first-generation programs on campus, like TRIO? 

Kai: No, I’m not yet. I would like to be, I mean, I know about TRIO because I was involved in TRIO in middle school, but I haven’t since I’ve been in college, and I’ve considered doing that stuff. I just haven’t looked into it yet. That’s all. 

Lux: Yeah, it’s like an extra thing, too, and sometimes schedules just really don’t make room for that. 

Kai: And I think with the TRIO one as well, if I recall correctly, you have to take an extra class or something like that. And I can’t do that with my schedule. 

Lux: So, First-Gen Scholars is one of those programs that we talked about really briefly. And they’re the ones that have the course that’s connected to it. But a lot of folks don’t know that the Office for First-Gen Access has a space that’s just for first-gen students to hang out. There’s a pantry there as well. And it’s kind of meant to be a third place where you can just spend your time however you want there. Like you can meet other folks, you can study, grab some food. They have a lot of support services there. But that might be another cool resource to look at. Even while not participating in the course itself, I think you might still have a good in if you have time to make a stop by that office. It’s called the First-Gen Space and it’s right on the ground level of the union building. But yeah, it’s a really cool group of people who work there, too. So, kind of connected to that conversation about finding your place and finding a community so that the experience of going to university isn’t one that’s isolating. Kind of related to that, our campus has demographics that are–how do I say this?–they’re pretty homogeneous, and there’s a real dominant culture in the state that, of course, has a role in every part of our communities. But those things, like being on a historically and predominantly white campus, being on a campus where they operate according to the continuing generation student experience. But I’m wondering with those things in mind, did you feel like that was in any way challenging to developing like a sense of belonging on campus or, you know, mitigating any kind of sense of Imposter Syndrome or anything like that? 

Kai: I think that I didn’t feel too many issues just being around campus and feeling like I belonged because, I mean, they do a lot of cultural events, and sales, and food trucks–lots of different kinds of food. And I think I see a lot of people from varying backgrounds around campus. I did occasionally feel like it was a little strange, forming relationships with people on campus once I started doing that more because my background is not like a lot of people’s background. Like my friends and I will talk about our lives or upbringing, and I’m like, “Oh, all this happened, and I was kicked out and, like, I don’t speak to my family.” And then my friends are like, “I still go visit my mom every week, and my mom pays my gas money.” And for me, like a part of me wants to say, “You are so spoiled,” but I…maybe it’s not. I wasn’t given the best hand. So I think that sometimes it can be a little strange when forming interpersonal connections, like getting used to different perspectives. And it’s a lot of people who I sometimes want to feel jealous of because I’m like, “You were given such a good hand. I’m so jealous of all the opportunities you’ve gotten to experience.” But I just try and stay grounded. And I’m like, I’ve also afforded myself many opportunities in my own way. And so I…it’s fine. I don’t really feel weird or out of place on the U campus only because the circles of people I surround myself with– they’re generally pretty aligned with me and pretty secular as well. And I do appreciate that as opposed to most other campuses here in the state. 

Lux: Yeah. It is such an interesting university to be right in the middle of a state that’s so homogenous and then having much more diversity in this little area of our community. 

Kai: Kind of its own little town a little bit. 

Lux: It does feel like that a lot of the time. So we’re kind of getting close to wrapping up and I wanted to look at, um, just like giving you moments to reflect and talk about the future. So, based on your experience so far at the U, I’m wondering if there are any kinds of resources or support or services or anything like that that you wish had been available to you as a student so far? 

Kai: I wish that there was not a charge for parking. I think everybody does, or at least not as expensive as it is. I don’t drive to campus. I have a car now. I don’t drive to campus. I do like that the transit is relatively decent. There’s always room for improvement, but yeah, transit is good. I do wish that there was more accessibility for parking and whatnot and getting around campus because I think that some people have difficulty with that. Or like, I know some people who are showing up at like eight in the morning just to get a spot.

Lux: Yeah, it’s very real. 

Kai: Yeah, it’s very competitive. But yeah, it’s pretty decent. 

Lux: Mentioning the parking situation is really important. Because it was earlier this semester that the university announced that there’s going to be this major change in class scheduling for the spring semester, as a way of making it less of a difficulty to find parking. 

Kai: I don’t think that’s the solution. 

Lux: What are your thoughts on that? I’m so curious.

Kai: I, yeah, I don’t love that because it also assumes that every student or faculty member drives to campus, which is not the case. They have such a robust public transit system for the area that it is kind of a slap in the face to everybody else who isn’t commuting by car. And it’s also quite inconvenient for people who have to work jobs. Like other jobs outside of the university or even within, because I have been personally working Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 9:30 to 3:30. And then I do a 12 hour shift on Sundays. But I think that a lot of people like having either a morning shift or a night shift for their jobs, and then they have classes on the opposite side. But this is going to require some people . . . maybe they’ll have to have swing shifts or something really weird. It just messes a lot of people up because you’re already trying to figure out how to pay for school and adjust your schedule each semester. And now you have to adjust it around something that’s a little bit weirder, and not every employer is going to work with that. I know that from personal experience. So I think it alienates people who are already struggling financially. I know plenty of people who aren’t and who don’t even have to work jobs because their parents pay for them. And maybe like you were saying before, that’s who the university mostly caters to, those continuing education students or students of alumni and whatnot. But for those who are just trying to get started and do that on their own, it doesn’t afford as much flexibility as there should be. 

Lux: Absolutely. Yeah. Speaking my own opinion here, I think that it really throws a wrench into the works for a lot of folks. Whether it’s managing a job or multiple jobs in addition to school or having childcare responsibilities, there are a lot of factors that I don’t know were considered before they made that decision. So it’s an interesting transition point for us, is a way to put it–a neutral way to put it, I guess. So thinking about your time in college so far, could you talk about a milestone, experience, or an accomplishment that you’ve had that you are especially proud of?

Kai: In college, I think making my own social life was my biggest accomplishment because I didn’t really know how to do that before and do so in a way that wasn’t damaging to my mental health. I think that there’s, especially here in Utah, there’s a pretty cliquey culture within a lot of the communities here. And if you aren’t a member of the majority community, then that can be detrimental to you. And I’m not from Utah. I moved here for my last two years of high school, for junior and senior year. And so I think that I found that kind of culture that surrounds the state a bit jarring and ostracizing at times. But when I got to college, being able to sort of set that aside and meet a lot of people who are either from out of state or are not necessarily as polarizing, I think made all the difference and made me feel like more welcome in my communities. I got to learn a lot more about other really big things here, like hiking and nature and stuff, and not just the one that usually comes to mind. 

Lux: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that’s so important, too. That’s one of many accomplishments that I can identify just from this brief conversation that we’re having. But taking charge of your mental health in that way and expanding your circle while also holding boundaries, that is really impressive and shows a lot of emotional maturity. So good on you. I just want to give you kudos for that, too. So as we wrap up, I’m wondering if you have any kind of advice or encouragement that you’d want to pass on to other first-gen students? 

Kai: Yeah, that’s really important. That’s definitely probably the most important thing I might want to talk about today. But I don’t know what to say without it sounding cheesy. [Laughs] I think that really the most important thing is to be okay with being self-reliant for the time being until you don’t have to be anymore, and also knowing when to utilize your support system. There’s a habit amongst people like myself that I’ve noticed where you get to a point where maybe you don’t want to be alone sometimes and you want to have people around you, and then maybe you’re surrounded by the wrong people. And that’s very detrimental. But there’s the other side of the coin where you get so independent and so like, “I can do everything myself,” that you don’t utilize campus resources, you don’t utilize your friendships for support, and you don’t utilize your familial relationships for, you know, calling home and asking for someone to lend you an ear, or calling home and asking somebody to, you know, maybe have dinner ready for you, even if you feel like it might be a burden. Just knowing when you can go and knowing when you can stop is really, really important. Because without being able to manage that, it can be really detrimental to your mental health, which ultimately affects your academics more than you might expect.

Lux: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And just being able to kind of check in with yourself is a very important skill. 

Kai: Oh, and also I wanted to mention, just be open to social events as well. I think I made the mistake my first year where, even when I very rarely had time to go to social events or to spend time with people or accept an invitation to go out, I didn’t because I always wanted to think, “Well, I can be doing this right now. I can be doing this homework assignment right now. I can be studying for this. I can be prepping for this.” But sometimes the best thing to do before a big assignment or a project or a test is to let yourself chill out and enjoy your time with your friends because you’re going to go home happy and you’re going to sleep good. And then the better sleep you get, the better that you’ll do on anything. So I always suggest that if you get an invitation for a social event and you don’t have anything that’s super pressing, deadline-wise, just go and do it. 

Lux: Yeah, I think that’s so important, too, because it can be a very lonely experience if you’re just trying to do it on your own. And I mean, it is hard to make friends. It is hard to ask for help. But you’ve shown a lot of bravery and willingness to do those things, and it’s really paid off in huge ways, it looks like.Well, I think this is a good stopping point. And I just want to thank you for talking with me today. I think this is going to be so valuable. And just even having the experience of having this conversation with you has been really meaningful. So I feel very honored that you’re willing to share your story with everyone. 

Kai: Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate it.