Interviewers: Lux Darkbloom & Jimena Prieto Andrew
Interview Subject: Joana Acevedo Ramirez 

Lux: Could you please introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about your background? 

Joana: Yes, so my name is Joana Acevedo Ramirez and I am the program coordinator for First Generation Scholars. A little bit about my background, I actually graduated from the U from the business school and I got my degree in marketing. And I was in denial that I liked working with students, so hence the marketing thing. But I had, like, positions that all, like, aligned with working with students, so I’ve worked with kindergarten students all the way up to now college students. Although the little ones were cute, I couldn’t do it, they’re too much. But I love working with college students. And I’ve been working with college students now, like…this is going to be my third year I believe, third year, which is crazy to me. But I guess on a personal note, my family’s from Zacatecas, Mexico, and I was born in Las Vegas, however, I always feel like I grew up in my Mexican culture, so I always hear this saying, “Ni de aquí, ni de allá,” but for me it’s like “De aquí, de allá,” so I am from there and from here. And I feel like that’s like the perfect way to describe my upbringing because I’m constantly trying to keep my culture and then adjust it to whatever area I’m in, you know, like because it’s such a part of me. And I think in my field, especially, it’s critical for me to just, like, keep that part of myself because it’s just being authentically myself, you know. But I have, let’s see–I have a younger brother and a younger sister and two loving parents, who are immigrants that I appreciate so much because I would not be here without them. 

Lux: So you grew up in Vegas, you mentioned, how did you wind up at the University of Utah?

Joana: That’s a good question. I…honestly, it happened at the time where the economy crashed, so around, like, 2009. So the economy crashed, and my dad lost his job and was having a hard time finding work. And I remember he told us how he was gonna come to Utah because there were rumors that there was work here. And I remember thinking to myself, I was like, “What is Utah? Like, what are you talking about?” Clearly my geography teacher did not do a great job because I was like, “What is it?” 

[Laughter]

Lux: I think that’s a fair question still.

Joana: And so he came and I remember at the time he was like, “Yeah, like I’m looking for work, we’re staying at this hotel,” because he came with my aunt’s husband. And so they lied. They were staying in a car because they could, it’s just we couldn’t afford it at the time. And so luckily they did find a job pretty quickly, like within the week, and they were able to find an apartment. So both of our families moved together from Vegas to Utah. And we have pretty much lived around the same neighborhood since then, just kind of moved around to like different spots, which I’m really grateful for because that change from like Vegas to Utah was rough. 

Lux: I would say. That’s got to be a pretty major cultural shift. 

Joana: And we came in November. Homegirl was, like, not ready for winter. 

Lux: I can definitely relate.

Joana: But the cultural shock was definitely there. Like I came from Vegas, which is super diverse and rich and so much culture. And like, then I came here and at the time, I feel like there were less BIPOC folks, which was just, like, rough for me. But I feel like that’s– if I hadn’t moved here, I don’t think I would have had the access to some of the opportunities that I had. Because throughout school, I felt like I had some really great, like, teachers that, like, encouraged me to go to college and actually explained how it was possible to get there. And that’s how I ended up at the University of Utah. It was thanks to, specifically, Ms. Graybill. She was my AVID teacher in junior high. 

Lux: What’s AVID? 

Joana: Sorry. Oh, no, that’s a good question. AVID is a program that stands for Advancement Via Individual Determination. Basically, it’s like a college prep class that, like, you have, like, during school. And you talk a lot about college and goals. And they always do, like, encourage taking notes and, like, just finding organizational styles that work for you. And so the teacher in that program just helped me so much. 

Lux: So, on a sort of related note, what motivated you to pursue higher education? 

Joana: I always knew I wanted to go because my parents were, like, higher education is, like, the way to go. Like, that’s how you’re gonna get us out of poverty. Like, there was never any doubt in my mind that I would go. I just didn’t know how to get there was the big issue. But for the longest time, my motivation was basically just them. Like I would just think about how much they sacrifice to be in this country and how much they sacrifice just on a daily basis to like, you know, make a living. Like I think about my dad moving here to Utah. And I’m like, this man literally slept in a car so we could, like, so we could move here and he could find a job and, like, find stability. And so, for me, a big thing of, like, wanting to go to college was wanting to make them proud and wanting to make their sacrifices worth it. I don’t think it was until, like, I actually got to college that I realized I needed to find more motivation than that. And so in college, it turned into trying to figure out why I wanted to do it for myself as well. And so that has been a journey. I think…my second year, I was ready to drop out. So that’s when my big shift happened because I was like, “I still want to do this for my family. But like, why do I have no motivation?” And I had to go searching for it. And slowly but surely, like, I was just, like, “You know what, like, I deserve a good life. I want to have stability. Like, I never want to experience the financial insecurity that I went through.” And so that became such a huge motivator for myself. And it’s, it’s kept me going. And it’s the reason I was able to get my degree. 

Lux: Were there any specific role models–like you mentioned your, your teacher from AVID–role models, other mentors who encouraged you to pursue higher ed? 

Joana: The big one is definitely Ms. Graybill, because she’s, she’s my AVID teacher from junior high. And I still connect with her to this day. 

Lux: Really? 

Joana: Yeah, I do. Yeah, she’s so sweet. She’s, like, “Do you want to come back and speak to our class?” And I’m like, “Yeah, I’ll go. Anything for you.” She’s such a sweetheart. I think, for me, like having her believe in me at a time where I was so insecure, really helped motivate me so much. And then I, once I got to college, I will forever be grateful for Latu Kanikini and Rich La– oh my gosh, I can never say his last name. So I’m not gonna butcher it. But Rich. They were my Opportunity Scholars mentors in college. And they, you could just tell that these folks cared so much about their students. Like I remember, I was sitting there in, like, the space that they had one day. And I was– I was the first one there. It was, like, 7am. And I was there and Rich comes in and he’s like, “Joanna, what are you doing here?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m studying.” And he said, “Well, have you had breakfast?” And I was like, “No.” He comes, he leaves, comes back with, like, a bowl of cereal, and like, hands it to me. And I was over there like, “You had no idea what a horrible day I was having. And now here you are.” And so like, they just did, like, these little things that really helped keep me going. And I’m so grateful I found them and their program. And they care so much. I feel like it’s something that, like, it says something when I send students to those folks, because I work with so many students. And I care about my students so much. So I want them to receive the support from, from, from the best, you know. And when it comes to them, I’m always like, “Meet with Latu. Like, you’re gonna love her. She’s amazing. She’s going to create such a welcoming vibe.” And I have no reason to worry because I know they’re safe. 

Lux: Now that you work with students, do you find that they’re experiencing a lot of institutional barriers? 

Joana: Even just like with the current, like, EDI bill that went around, there’s just so much– like the message that it sends to our BIPOC students is so discouraging. And, and that in itself is, like, a huge barrier. I see so many barriers for my undocumented students. When opportunities are presented and– even, for example, we’ve had, like, financial institutions come speak to our students. And then they, when we mentioned like, “Can they open an account?” They’re like, “Actually, right now they can open a savings account, but they can’t get loans.” And so even things like that are such a huge barrier for– that some of my students face. I think even just, at times, just navigating it, cause there’s just, there’s so many resources out there that they, like– getting yourself to, like, ask for help is, like, such a huge barrier. I’d like to think that, like, we’re slowly making improvements, but this EDI bill really made me feel like . . . ah, like, like we’re taking ten steps back now. So I feel like we have to be, I mean, optimistic things will get better, but we have to be realistic and, like, acknowledge the barriers that are in place because they are there. 

Lux: I agree. As far as, like– I know you work with students a lot around, like, financial aid and FAFSA–how do you feel about working with the organizations on campus, like the office of financial aid? Or have you heard much about students’ experiences with them and what that’s like? 

Joana: I feel like I’ve more so worked one-on-one with FAFSA with students. I haven’t necessarily worked directly with the financial aid office. And so I don’t think I have too much to say about what it’s like working with them cause I haven’t done so just yet. 

Lux: Do they, like, offer support? 

Joana: I believe so. FAFSA this year went through like a huge change, which is causing so many issues for like undocumented parents. Like they can’t create their FSA ID even though they’re supposed to. And so, um, this entire, like, system was not prepared to help folks with mixed status families, you know? And it’s so, like, discouraging to not see, like, a message come from, like, the financial aid office. Like, “We’ll be flexible,” you know? Instead, like they– they’ve been saying it, like, more one-on-one when students reach out, um, where like, “Yeah, we’ll extend it. Like, we’ll accept applications as they come in up until April 1st,” which– I mean, thank you for extending it kind of -ish, like, on the down-low for our students, but why is it not a message for the whole student body so students don’t feel worried? Like first, students have to go through, like the, the pressure of, like, not being able to complete it in time, the pressure of then, like, being kind of, like, last on the list to have their FAFSA reviewed because they have to wait for all these changes to be made. And, and then the last to be reviewed for like any scholarship opportunities because their FAFSA is going to be delayed. You know what I mean? Like, it just– 

Lux: Layers of potential setbacks. 

Joana: Exactly. Exactly. 

Lux: And that has to be anxiety inducing at the very least. I mean, so stressful. And do you feel like when that happens, what do you– how would you interpret your experiences talking with students about their sense of belonging as first-gen students and your experiences too, of course?

Joana: It’s, it’s knowing the system wasn’t prepared or created to support students like myself or students– Cause, you know, I come from a mixed status family, too. So like, if I look back at, like, my, my FAFSA, my FAFSA years, it’s just this constant thing of, like, the system not being prepared for you. Because students are dealing with this now. But at the time when I was going through school, I was– had to verify my, my financial information, like, every year.

Jimena: Oh, me too. Every single year. It’s, like, another layer. Yeah. So that doesn’t go away. 

Joana: Yeah. And then they’re, like, randomly selected. And I’m like,” Randomly selected?”

Jimena: They always put that . . . 

Joana: Five years in a row? 

Jimena: “Randomly selected” in the email. Yeah. 

Joana: It’s frustrating. Cause I also have to go through this like conversation with students where, like, I’ll tell them a little bit about my experience because I always think it’s helpful for them to see like, look, I understand where you’re coming from. But also letting them know, like, if you– you need to advocate for yourself. So I’ve been having them reach out to the financial aid office and let them know like, “Hey, this delay is happening in my FAFSA.” And I have an honest conversation with them. I’m like, “You can explain to them the way you explain to me. Like, if you tell them your parents are undoc[umented], like you’re protected under FERPA. They can’t share that information,” you know? And so letting them know that information early on before they send that email so that they feel like they can reach out for help. So there’s the, the belonging part doesn’t come from, like, the systems quite in place, like here in, at the U. It’s more from, like, the programs such as, like, First-Gen Scholars, or the Dream Center, CESB [Center for Equity and Student Belonging]–that’s where the belonging comes in because we wouldn’t reach out for help if it wasn’t for those programs. 

Lux: Yeah. It sounds like the onus for understanding the context of support for a whole variety of backgrounds– the onus is on the student, rather than the financial aid office. Yikes. In a nutshell, yikes. Going back to when you were in school, you mentioned that you had a significant moment during your second year where you thought about dropping out. Could you talk a little bit more about that and like what, maybe what your first year was like on campus or very early at least?

Joana: Yeah. So my first year on campus, I was so lost. I changed my major–well, without even changing my major, I would just change my major in my mind, I was like, “Yeah, I changed my mind.” And you, like, go from being, like, in this smaller space–like high school is smaller–and then to now being, like, thrown into like this huge institution. It was confusing, so confusing. I remember I was feeling so lost, too, because now, like, my, my friends that I would see, like, every single day, now I would see them like once a month, because no one had time anymore. And I remember one of the biggest things I dealt with was feeling like I was so dumb, like so dumb in school. Like I, I– biology haunts me to this day, because I’m like, oh my gosh, like that, that was just like such a negative experience to feel, feel that, you know, like you were not prepared enough for the educational challenges of higher institution, especially when you, like, come from a background where you’re like, I feel like I’ve done really good, like I took AP classes, I did this, I did that. But why do I still feel this way? And so I think in my second year, it’s just everything just collectively, like, took a toll on me. My first year I had Diversity Scholars, which helped me get through the year, but my second year I didn’t have that anymore. And so that’s why I felt like I was ready to just leave. And I remember there was one particular night where I had, like, my biggest breakdown. My poor little sister–at the time, she was like 16–and she was just like, “What’s wrong?” And I was like, I was like, “I’m just not happy. Like there’s no other way to put it. Like I’m not happy in this space.” And she was like, “It’s okay. Like if you need to take a break, it’s okay. Like you don’t– mom and dad will get over it.” [Crying] And I’m like– oh my gosh, I’m sorry. 

Lux: It’s okay. 

Joana: But I just think it was, it was so reassuring to get that message from, like, my little sister and I’m so grateful for her. And it also took some of that pressure away because I always wanted to be, like, a good example for her–and for my little brother, too. And just getting that like, it’s okay to just take a break and take care of yourself. And after that, I didn’t take a break from school, but I did reach out to the counseling center here at school. And oh my gosh, thank goodness for, for that, for that therapist. She was so sweet and she was so helpful. And she was Latina, which was amazing. And I slowly started to get back on, back on my, like, school grind once I started to do that reflection period, you know, and center myself more and what I wanted more. And I, I remember I started to also look for community, and that’s when I found Opportunity Scholars and I found an amazing group of girlfriends that, like, I took classes with and I started to enjoy myself so much more because there’s– the thing about the business school. It’s like a very predominantly white institution. I know this whole institution is, but the business school really is. And so it was so nice to finally find that community and to find that strength in myself and for myself that, like, made such a huge difference to, like, get out of my rut. But that’s kind of how I landed in that, that space. I just, I felt like I lost community and I lost sight of why I was doing higher institution, higher education in the first place. 

Lux: Yeah. It’s hard to pull yourself out of that place too. Like, um, I’m so glad for the Counseling Center for so many reasons. 

Joana: Me, too.

Lux: So [pause] how do you think– that was so beautiful by the way.

Jimena: Yeah, it was.

Lux: Thank you for talking about that. 

Joana: This feels like a therapy session. 

[Laughter]

Lux: Can you talk a little bit about, um, if first-being– first-gen status impacted your career path? And if so, how?

Joana: Oh my gosh, so much. Cause I, I say first-gen so proudly because it’s hard to navigate this place, and then to get through it and be the first in your family. Like, “Damn straight I’m first-gen!” Like, I don’t– like, it’s, it’s one of those things where, um, it’s, it’s come to– like, my entire identity has come to the forefront of my career because, if I wasn’t authentically myself, students would not connect with me. They, they just wouldn’t. And so when I walk into a space, the biggest gift I can give myself to, like, prepare myself for success is to just walk in as me. And so when I walk into the space, like, I will introduce myself and I will be like, “I am first-gen. I’m a proud daughter of immigrants. I’m Mexican-American. Like I am all these things. Um, and so much more.” And, and that’s how I have been able to build such authentic connections with students is because I walk in and I’m just me, and I’m going to continue pushing to, like, continue being me as I progress throughout my career. So I feel like it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s my, my superpower, to be quite honest, like when I walk into a space and I’m me, um, because I know that like the further on I, I go in my career, um, the more I’m going to bring others with me, you know? The goal is not to have, um, to be the only Latina in the workplace. The goal is to bring other folks along with me of all identities. So yeah, it’s– it matters.

Lux: It really does. It’s so significant, having programs like First-Gen Scholars, and there are so few programs for first-gen students on campus. I know TRIO is a really important one that collaborates with First-Gen Scholars a lot. When you were in school, did your first-gen status impact your ability to pay tuition or require financial aid? 

Joana: Yeah, I just, I didn’t have– I didn’t even know what a 529 plan was at the time. I didn’t have any savings for college. My parents were very supportive of me wanting to go, which I appreciated. But what they made was not enough to help cover tuition, you know? And so I remember, because of the AVID program, we were forced to apply to scholarships. [Laughs] And so I just kept applying to scholarships. I feel like, because I was first-gen, I was able to get into programs that were for first-gen students. So, like, Diversity Scholars, AVID, Opportunity Scholars–all these different programs, they were for first-generation students. And I just happened to have added layers of identity. Like I was also Latina, and I was also low-income. And so these programs let me know about different scholarships because I didn’t have a full ride to get through school. And I just had scholarships that ended up kind of adding up to, like, having my full tuition paid for. And at the time the For Utah [scholarship] didn’t exist. And so, like, I really needed to just continue applying. So year after year, like, I would look for those first-gen opportunities, um, or, you know, those Latina opportunities, whatever I could get my hands on to try and pay for school. 

Lux: That has got to be so stressful, trying to secure tuition every year. 

Joana: Oh yeah. I remember I was short one semester, like two grand, and I was so, I was so scared. This is one of those instances where my sister helped me again. I remember I was telling her, I was like, “Girl, like I’m, I, I need two grand.” And I didn’t have like a hundred dollars in my bank account at that time. And I remember she outed it, outed me to my parents, and she was like, “Joanna’s short two grand. She doesn’t have enough to pay for school this semester.” Um, and I was like, I was so bothered at that time because I was like, “Why would you like out me like that? Like I was going to figure it out.” But thankfully they were in a place where they were able to help me with that amount of money. Um, oh my gosh, I am so grateful they did that because I was so scared. I was like, I’m going to have to take a break from school. It was, it was just so many layers of just not knowing if I was going to have enough money. Not knowing– cause I know I did like a payment plan here and there and like just thinking about, okay, my next paycheck, like, I need to make sure this goes to that. I can’t be spending it on food. 

Lux: That’s a really, like, unfair choice you have to make. Like I, I would hope that– I mean, we know the institution does not provide nearly enough for students who are struggling financially. But, yeah, that’s the choice that nobody should have to make–between planning for their future with school and eating.

Joana: Literally, I know. And I was lucky that, like, at the time I was living at home. So I could get meals at home. But I remember when I wouldn’t have time to, like, make lunch, or if I didn’t just, if I didn’t have money at the time to like buy food on campus, I would just power through it. And I was like, “Yeah, I’m good. I don’t need food.” And like I– that’s also a sign that I was like, maybe I should have gone to like one of the food pantries, but it wasn’t like it– like there was this stigma around going to the pantries or it was– like, I didn’t even know we had pantries on campus either. And so this food insecurity is such a real thing. And I would just crack jokes and be like, “Ah, it’d be fine. Like I’m surviving, you know. Like when I get home, I’ll get food.” Um, but I’m like, “Girl, eating once a day or twice a day is not enough. Like you need to, like, get your meals,” and yeah, I look back and I’m like, “Wow, I got through that.”

Lux: So did you work full-time when you were going to school? Part-time?

Joana: Part-time. 

Lux: That is a lot of work. 

Joana: Yeah, I worked part-time, and I remember there was a time, there was, like, one month where I had two jobs. Oh, that was such a mess. I was like, I can’t do that no more. So I had to quit one of them, but I tried to balance that out for quite some time. And it’s not like these part-time jobs paid great. Like I was making like $10 an hour to like $12 an hour. One time I was making $9 an hour, and that one hurt. So you just had to keep hustling. There was no other way. 

Lux: It’s a lot of balancing all these different variables, like between multiple jobs and balancing school and work. How was that for you? How did you find balance between work and school and family and social responsibilities?

Joana: This is hard, especially in a Latinx household, because my mom would be like, “What do you mean you’re not spending time with the family. What do you mean you’re not going to come to Pedrito’s party?” You know? So I, um, I don’t know how I had so much energy to be honest with you. Cause I look back and I’m like, dang, I don’t know if I could do that no more. But I would literally just like– I would come to campus, and I would stay on campus in between breaks between jobs and classes. And I would study. Cause if I went home, it was really hard for me to study at home. There was just like– there was always noise. Someone always needed something. And so I would prefer to just stay on campus, to be honest. And sometimes, like, I remember when I was trying to bond with family time, I would take my books with me to the family functions. So I would, I would be the studious fool. I was sitting there with my book and I was reading and like, I was trying to catch up on my assignments and everything. Um, and yeah, I would just try to find– Lord knows how I got enough energy to go to the gym, too. Cause sometimes I would go to the gym. I was like, what? I don’t know. I really don’t know where the energy came from. To be honest, I was really– I genuinely think AVID helped me keep, like, a good, um–what is it called? Like I was a big planner girl, so I would have my planner and I would have days and items planned for, like, the entire day. And that would probably help me the most in staying organized. Cause I wouldn’t make time for stuff. And I don’t know how I did it to this day because, like, I also tried to be involved in, like, Opportunity Scholars, or I went to a couple Alpha things that they did. And I don’t know how I made the time. 

Lux: So you’re participating in the school community, too. 

Joana: Yeah. Cause they tell you, right? They’re like, “Oh, in order to get a career after this, like you want to do internships, you want to, like, network, get the experience.” And so I was over there trying to do that. And it was hard. There were a lot of tears during that time. Yeah. 

Lux: So on a related note, how do you think being first-gen status impacted your emotional wellbeing while you were at the U as a student? 

Joana: I mean, at first I definitely– Being first gen, I felt like I had so many limitations, you know, and so many hurdles to get over. And so I feel like, over time, being first-gen in this higher institution turned into just like, having grit, like being like a gritty individual, and getting past as much as I could. And so I feel like now first–gen holds a very proud, um, significance for me because I’ve been able to get past all of that. But at the beginning I was like, hey, being first-gen is rough because there’s just so many hurdles to get over. But, yeah, you can definitely now, looking back–and I think we need to do that more often, like sit back and look back at everything we’ve accomplished so far as a reminder, like, “Oh my gosh, you know what? You might be stressed out, but you did that. You got through that semester.” Um, so definitely I feel like it’s now– It holds a very special place in my heart, being first-gen. 

Lux: So in that, in, in that sense, it had a positive impact on your academic success because it really motivated you to achieve.

Joana: Yeah. And it definitely did. And I saw it pop out in random instances, too, because I remember I had a class once, and the professor started off with like, “I’m just going to let you all know right now, half of you are going to fail this class. The other half are going to have a C. We’re probably going to have, like, one A.” And I was like, “Alright, bet, bet.” I was that A! [Laughs] And so I feel like I took that first-gen approach, and I was just like, “You know what? I’m gonna take you down, sir. Intellectually.”

Lux: Yeah! It’s gotta be so hard when you’re, I mean, 18.

Joana: I don’t know. I think that one was like later on in my college career too. I think I was like 20, 20 to 21, you know, which is still so young. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, sir, why are you trying to scare me?”

Lux: Yeah. I mean, that’s a huge power imbalance there, where a faculty member’s announcing at the beginning of a class, like, “Expect failure.” Broadly. 

Jimena: Yeah. You’d be surprised. A lot of professors still do it. 

Lux: Did you ever encounter first-gen faculty who talked about that status? 

Joana: Yeah, actually. Latu was super open about her first gen-status, you know? And we went on a trip to Zions with Opportunity Scholars. And I’ll never forget this trip because you get to see the personalities come out of everyone. And I remember during one of the dinners at night, she made a speech about how proud she was to be first-gen and she was balancing–and, at the time, I don’t want to get this wrong, but give or take–she was balancing being a mom and getting her master’s degree. And I was like, “Girl, you did that.” And hearing those stories really motivated me so much to just continue. And then the other thing Opportunity Scholars did that I was so appreciative of is they would have, like, a graduation celebration at the end of each semester. They would always have a luau is what they had. And they would acknowledge all the graduating first-gen students and have them say a few words at the end. And that’s kind of just all you needed to get through the rest of the semester. Like hearing those stories and knowing like, “Okay, you know what? He did it. I could do it too, you know?” It really helps keep you going, that community. And they also had just like, like, socials or, in between, different things that kind of kept you going. And that community just made the biggest difference knowing, like, okay, I’m not alone. I’m not the only one. So definitely so thankful that she was open about her first-gen experience and that they created space for other first-gen students to share their own stories. 

Lux: So as a professional who works with first-gen students daily, if you had, say–I don’t even know how to frame this–like if you could have a pipe dream of the ideal programming, not necessarily one program, but potentially a set. Like what sort of systemic changes would you make to this university so we could better support first-gen students? 

Joana: I would start with education for all staff on– not just helping undocumented students, but helping our trans students, helping our, you know, oh my gosh, like our Black students feel a sense of belonging, like just pure like education on how to work with BIPOC folks for like every single person here. And then maybe a lesson on listening to people. There’s so much, I feel like, disconnect the higher up you go in the institution from what students’ needs are. And I feel like that results in them creating solutions that are not fit to the needs of current students because their needs are constantly evolving. So I would do that first: Education for everyone. They need it. 

Lux: Faculty, staff, administration, everyone. 

Joana: Everyone needs education. Absolutely. And then, in terms of programming for first-gen students, I would love to be able to keep the structure of our programming because we are a multi-year cohort. And that makes such a huge difference for our students to be able to stay in a program year after year and continue receiving support because you don’t know when your motivation level is going to hit zero. It might not be your first year. It might be your third year. 

Lux: I have read in the past that First-Gen Scholars, for example, has an amazing retention rate for second-year students that really is so much higher than the general retention rate for undergraduates. So, like you were talking about how this program is right now, a multi-year cohort program, but it is potentially changing. Can you talk a little bit about it? 

Joana: Yes. So there definitely are changes coming to the program, and there’s just such power in having a program that is multi-year because the student’s confidence grows throughout the years. And being able to bring them in with younger students and show them the confidence that they have and then build their way up to that. There’s so much power in that. And so I just feel so strongly about the strength of our students in a multi-year cohort because I see it. I see how the first-years come in and, at the beginning, they’re super shy. And then towards the end, they’re over there doing karaoke in front of everyone. 

Jimena: Exactly. Dancing in front of the whole class. 

Lux: Yeah.

Joana: And, also, the beauty of it is also that it’s built by first-gen students for first-gen students. And so I’m really pushing to having– And luckily this is not an area where they’re like, “Oh no, like, we can’t have this.” They’re in an agreement where it has to be built by first-gen students for first-gen students so we can keep the authenticity of the program and the power it has. But I definitely feel like a multi-year cohort just has such power in it. And it’s not commonly seen, to be honest. 

Lux: We don’t have very many on campus that I can even think of off of my head.

Joana: Exactly. Like I know my first year of college, I had Diversity Scholars and, at the time, they didn’t have a second-year program. And I was also not prepared to take on a mentorship role because I didn’t have the confidence to do it. And it was my second year when I hit rock bottom. And so I wish I had had something there that was, like, I could continue because I wasn’t ready for a mentorship role or leadership role at that time. And I think that’s the beauty of this program now. The fact that students can come in and remain, like, mentees their first year and second year. And then, if they feel up for it, their third year they can be a mentor. And the year after that they can apply to be a leader, you know. There’s just such power in that. 

Lux: Yeah. And I imagine it has a big impact on the sense of community when you can have the same group of students essentially. Like sure there are folks who transfer in and out, but largely the same group of students for a few years. 

Joana: Oh yeah. And that’s also why it makes recruitment easy because students love the program so much that they are able to vouch for us and be like, “Come apply.”

Jimena: Like I could literally vouch. Like if it wasn’t for First-Gen Scholars, I would not be as confident as I am right now. Like I would not be the person that I am right now without the program. So I just have so much to thank that it’s just, like, crazy. 

Lux: And it’s your peers. 

Jimena: Yeah. 

Lux: Not the faculty, right? Because it seems like there is a huge information gap–is one way to put it, I suppose–between even understanding what “first-gen means.” There seems to be a lot of competing definitions in higher education. 

Joana: Oh yeah. We definitely need a campus-wide definition. That’s one thing that I’m like– I’m ready for that.

Lux: Yeah, for sure. What would you– What would the definition be that you would choose if you could?

Joana: I like the one that First-Gen [Scholars] uses, where they say that a parent or guardian did not get their bachelor’s degree or four-year degree in the U.S. because then that allows for folks to come in if their parents only got an associate’s, you know? Associates is a huge accomplishment, but still you would have to access a whole new system to try and get a bachelor’s. And it also includes folks whose parents might have gone to school, like outside of the country, whether they were in Colombia or Europe or wherever it was because the U.S. system is going to be so different compared to any other system. So it’s still relevant to them. So that would be the definition I would use campus-wide. 

Lux: What kind of guidance or words of advice you would have liked to have heard as a first-gen student?

Joana: I think my advice would be…It sounds so cheesy, but to to be open to being more vulnerable, whether that’s being vulnerable and asking for help, or being vulnerable and going to a club that you’re not sure about, you know, because sometimes it takes a couple tries before you find your community on campus, you know? So that would be my biggest thing, and even just like being vulnerable in class because I didn’t have the guts to ask for an extension on an assignment until my fifth year. 

Lux: I think that a lot of faculty here approach first-gen students through a deficit model where they’re like, “You don’t know how these systems work.” So really just focusing on the lack of knowledge/really contributing to being unable to feel like a person can belong? What was your experience like with that, or what are your thoughts about that sort of thing? 

Joana: I’ve actually done a lot of work on this through my different jobs where we need to switch the way we approach the support we provide our students to asset-frame. And I think there’s such power in that because if a student is looking at brochures or whatever, it’s like, “We’re here to help the less fortunate,” you know . . . But that doesn’t sit well. It doesn’t sit well. It doesn’t make you want to go and ask for help. But when a program switches to being like, “We are here for motivated first-gen students,” you know. That’s like, “You know what? I am motivated, or I want to be motivated.” That switches the language and our approach to getting more students to join the program. And I think even– I know funding is always still so important, you know, because we have to pay folks properly. But even in terms of searching for funding, there is such power in showing, like, “We serve motivated first-generation students,” and then afterwards saying, “who happen to be low-income,” right? “Or who happen to have x, y, and z challenges,” right? Because it, it’s– It would be a disservice to not mention the challenges that we face. But at the forefront, it should be all the amazing things that first-generation students are. And they are resilient. They are powerful. They are gritty. They are so many things. And so if we start that off, not only will we have more students, but I feel like there will be more funding, too.

Lux: And putting a spotlight on students who are not only resilient and motivated, but also working so hard to be good students–and are good students. It really is a disservice to not put a spotlight on all of that work, right? Or to frame it as a deficit.

Joana: Exactly. Because I know there’s this pressure. It, like– For example, like GPA. And if a student has, like, a 3.2, but they don’t have all these different barriers that they’re dealing with– Like still be proud of that 3.2. But if a student has a 2.7, and they have two jobs, and they’re keeping, like– helping their family out, and going to work, that 2.7 is something to be proud of, you know? That takes so much work, and that, that, that I think, matters just the same as a 3.8, 3.4, whatever. Yeah, there’s such value in it. 

Lux: There really is. Well, thank you so much for talking with us. That was so important. And I’m really glad that we were able to talk and hear your story. 

Joana: Thank you. Oh my gosh. Thank you for this free therapy session. 

[Laughter]