Interviewers: Lux Darkbloom & Jimena Prieto Andrew
Interview Subject: Kevin Enriquez 

Kevin: My name is Kevin Enriquez. I work here at the U. A little bit of my background, what I always like to say is I was born in California, but raised here in Utah. And I like to say that because I feel like I still have a piece of Cali in me. So. 

Jimena: Cali boy.

[Laughter] 

Lux: Which part of California? 

Kevin: LA. And then specifically, I was born in Van Nuys in LA. So it’s a really, really, apparently, talking to my mom, it’s really small. So yeah, me and my older brother, we were both born in LA, but he was born in a different hospital in LA, whereas I was specifically born in Van Nuys. So kind of interesting. 

Lux: And when did your family move to Utah from California? 

Kevin: Oh, when I was still an infant. I think they told me after they had me, like a couple, three months later, they ended up moving to Utah. Yeah. So I mentioned my older brother. We’re actually two, we’re exactly like two years and a week apart. 

Lux: Oh, wow. 

Kevin: So we’re both born in May. He was born May 8th. I was born May 15th. So really close in age. We had, at the beginning, I’d say we had like a good bond. But then it was weird. Like after he got into middle school, things weren’t the same anymore. So weird relationship, siblings. I don’t know what the heck’s happened.But yeah, so older brother. And then I do have a younger brother, which– He just turned 18 this year. So it’s like, damn. So I think we’re 10 or 11 years apart, I believe. So yeah. 

Lux: Did your older brother also go to the U?

Kevin: He did not. No. And I looked up to him a lot because he was a good student. He was– I don’t know if he was exactly straight A’s, but he had high GPAs all the time. Always had a good report with high school. And so I think he got a full-ride at Utah State. 

Lux: Wow. 

Kevin: So yeah. And that’s what his plans were, were going to Utah State, studying in, I don’t know if it was engineering, but some kind of field in the science math background because that’s where his strong suit was. Yeah. So he actually went to Utah State. I think he only went there for like a semester, though. And I say that just because he ended up having some complications in terms of relationships. 

Lux: Yeah.

Kevin: So he kind of fell more that route and disrupted a lot of our family, not style, but our family dynamic. 

Lux: Gotcha. Yeah. 

Kevin: And so yeah. It was an interesting time. He turned out– he did like a 180, is what I’ll say. He came from being this really good student to, all of a sudden, [he] finds a relationship, puts more effort into that relationship than his education now. And it just disrupted the family dynamic. And it was just really weird because we never saw him like that. We saw him more like, oh, education, school. He’s good at school. So he’ll get a degree and “A”s and all that. No, he didn’t. Surprisingly, he didn’t even make it a year because, again, he put so much effort. Ended up having a kid. And so then it’s like, OK, finding a job, trying to support that kid. And yeah, right. So yeah. 

Lux: It definitely changes your plans when you have a baby, whether it’s planned or not, things change pretty dramatically. 

Kevin: They do, yeah. And it was, yeah, like I said, it was an interesting time. And it was like, we never saw our brother like that. He was, he started to be very– Not very, but like . . . What’s that word that I’m trying to think of? Like when siblings or kids retaliate, like they kind of start misbehaving? 

Jimena & Lux: Oh, like, rebellious?

Kevin: Rebellious, yeah. 

Lux: We’re in unison today. [Laughs]

Kevin: Yes, he started becoming rebellious. And I know– and it was, it’s funny, but I hated him this one time because I think it was, it was like my senior year in high school. And my parents just got me a car. And the one thing he ends up doing is, like, in this rebellious stage while he was going over there, right? He ends up, one weekend– He steals my car and he drives up to go see his partner, which– She lives in Logan. So yeah, so he took my car. And like, it was weird because like the next day I wake up and I’m like, “Where’s my car at?” And I’m like, I asked my mom. I’m like, I didn’t see my dad around. So I’m like, “Oh, did my dad take it?” And my mom didn’t want to tell me exactly, but she ended up saying that my brother took my car. And I was just like, “What the–?” Like, I was pissed. I’m like . . .

Jimena: Which is understandable. 

Lux: Yeah, valid.

Kevin: So I’m like, “What the hell?” And then I like– And it was some time, like, you know what? I thought about it. I’m like, you know what? Joke’s kind of on him because that car that I had couldn’t really go more than 60 on the freeway. So . . .

[Laughter]

Lux: It’s a slow ride for Logan. Gave him a lot of time to think about what he’s done. 

Kevin: So yeah, so yeah, it was crazy to see. Cause like, again, growing up, like I mentioned middle school, right? Like once he hit middle school, he kind of started to be him–like his own self. Like he didn’t want to like, essentially, being younger, right? We don’t want to play with me anymore. Yeah. He wanted to play by himself. Like he just started doing things by himself. Wasn’t any better in high school. Yeah, it was weird. It sucked.It felt like I had a brother and then I didn’t have a brother anymore. And so, so . . . it kind of sucked. And it’s like, it even sucked more where it’s like, he started to care the year he was kind of, like, fucking up. So like his senior year where like the last two semesters, he, again, he was focusing on a relationship more than the school, right? So, and it, it was taking some time for that realization to hit. And, and yeah, so, so that kind of sucked. I think it really sucked that he missed out on his full-ride. Yeah. Cause yeah, the school paid out, too. So he definitely could have gotten a free education, but again, you end up having other life priorities, and you get a kid and it’s like a whole different story. 

Lux: Truly, it is, yeah. 

Kevin: So yeah, it’s like, I say it’s like, cause like, again, I looked up to my brother. I figured, you know, he’ll, he’ll be the first one to go to college, which he did. And the first one to get a degree . . . . ends up not being that way. So it’s like more of the– [It] ended up being more of the reason for me to be like, okay, go to school, and get a degree, and not kind of fail my parents in that sense. And so. 

Lux: Gotcha. Is your younger brother planning on going into higher ed, too? 

Kevin: Yeah, I think he’s kind of setting up himself more like for a career technical path, I think, from what I was talking to my parents. I think he’s believing . . . I think he’s believing. [Laughs at himself] I believe he’s, he’s going to start at SLCC. So I think he’s going to go to SLCC first and kind of see what he wants to do. I can’t remember exactly which field, like information systems or something around computers, I think is what he’s going to study. So yeah, he, yeah, he’s graduating this year from West. And then he’ll, he’ll start at Salt Lake Community College, which is crazy because I’m like thinking, I’m like, damn, no way it’s been that long already for me. 

[Laughter] 

Lux: It’s wild how quickly that passes. Has he been like asking you a lot of questions about what to expect? 

Kevin: Oh, no. 

[Laughter] 

Jimena: Really?

Kevin: No. 

Jimena: You would think, like, since you work in higher ed, he’s like, “Oh, help me do this, help me do this.”

Kevin: No, he’s not like that. He’s–and I think this is like with the new generation coming up–he’s very– He’s into video games. So it’s like each time I come by my parents’ house now, he’s just locked up in his room, just playing video games. And he’s just more focused on that. And I’m just like, I’m like, “Dude, do something else. Like, come outside.” Like, yeah. And it’s funny, like, and I say, I say, I quote unquote hate him because he, he’s like– I think he’s like six foot. So he’s taller than me. 

Jimena: Oh, wow. 

Kevin: And I’m like, I’m like, it sucks because now, not only am I the middle child now, I’m the shortest sibling. 

Jimena: Wait, you’re the shortest? Really? 

Kevin: I’m the shortest out of my brothers. So, and I was more . . .

Lux: Being the middle child’s hard enough, right?

Kevin: [Laughs] Yeah. I’m like, yeah, not only getting stuck with the middle, but now I’m, like, the shortest. I’m like, great. It’s okay, it’s okay.But I say that because I’m like, I was the athletic, I was the athletic child, right? I was out there trying to play sports and this and that, and come to see and figure it out. Like later on, my little brother ends up being tall. I’m like, I’m like, “You son of a . . .” [Laughs] I’m like, if I had that height, I would probably be somewhere in athletics right now. There’s even sometimes I hear mention of 5’7″, and I’m like, I’m barely one inch above it. [ Laughs]

Lux: So this is a little more narrow of a question, but what first motivated you to pursue higher ed? 

Kevin: That’s a good question. And I’m sure I mentioned this. You might’ve heard me say this a couple of times, too. I didn’t think higher ed was for me. I just figured I’d be done with school and just work right off the bat. I’m just like, I don’t know, higher ed seems like too much for me. Like being in AVID [Advancement Via Individual Determination], I’m, like, honors classes. If it’s anything like honors classes, I definitely don’t want to do that because I’m not trying to stress myself out. I’m not trying to look bad in terms of education. I’m like, no, that’s just too much, it’s too much. And so, I don’t know. It wasn’t until I think I joined TRIO–this one at the U–that kind of gave me more of a guideline sense of like– A better pathway to always be involved, at least somewhat involved with higher ed. And so– And I really love that program. I can’t stress [that] enough about that program because they start in high school. They start you out in high school, get you the feeling of what higher ed looks like, what university looks like. And didn’t realize because I thought it was just like a–when I joined, I thought it was just during the high school year–didn’t realize there was, like, a summer portion to it. And so, once there was like a summer portion to it, it was like, “Oh, you got to stay up at the U for like six weeks, take some classes, and then just, and then do fun activities essentially.” And so, I learned that from– I didn’t know about the program because of– or it was because of one of the staff members at the Boys and Girls Club. He actually did it when he was a student. So, and he was just like, “Oh, you should look out because I know they’re at West High, and they do this program.” So, I was like, alright, I’ll go after school to see if they’re there. And I’m like, they are there. They do after-school tutoring. So, I’m like, how do I join? And very grateful for that staff partner at the Boys and Girls Club to tell me that. So, I’m just like, because he told me– It sounded fun. Especially the summers. I’m like, you know what? That sounds like a lot of fun. And so, I was like, hell yeah. But of course I was scared in the summers because I didn’t know anybody else in the program. So, I was fresh new, right, that first summer? And they put us in with other students from other high schools. And so, I’m like, okay. Kind of get a sense . . . I think I knew at least one other friend that I had at West that was actually in it, too. So, I was like, okay, I don’t feel too scared. 

Lux: Or too alone. 

Kevin: Yeah.

Lux: Yeah, it’s intimidating starting off in high school especially. But it was probably like a– was it a shorter class? What am I trying to say? Like a bridge semester, I guess, since it’s a summer session. 

Kevin: Yeah, I think they still kept it within an hour’s length. Kind of like normal school. 

Lux: Yeah, how about the duration? Was it like a full 12 weeks, 15 weeks? 

Kevin: Yeah, so it was six weeks, I know for sure. I think we would be up there at the dorms like Sunday night so that we can sleep in. And then the next morning, classes started. Well, we have to get breakfast at like 8.30 or so. Classes started at 9:00. And I think we took in total like four classes at most.

Lux: Like per day? 

Kevin: Yeah. So, like still keeping the sense of, like, high school-esque, right? Of, like, still taking classes every day. So on. And so . . . But it was like classes that would eventually help us in the future, right? Like what we would be set up. So if I already took pre-algebra, I would be taking algebra in this summer duration. So it’s like then I’ll take algebra in high school. And so kind of like that nice success for going back to school. So yeah, and the summer was fun. Like I made a lot of new friends. I still have friends from Upward Bound that I still like to talk to and hang out, which is really rare. Cause I feel like after high school, you don’t see anybody else anymore. You just stick around to where you end up working. And if you really care about friends and you want to stay in touch, you’ll stay in touch with them. And so I’ll still say that I still have a lot of friends from high school, but I don’t really go out of my way to like to talk to them, to hang out with them, right? But no, with UB, I still have a couple of friends that I still really keep in touch, really close with. So I’m very grateful for that program. I think, yeah, if it wasn’t for that program, I don’t think I’d be here today, for sure. A hundred percent, I can say that. Cause like I said, college– I didn’t think college was for me. I didn’t think I was going to get a bachelor’s degree. I didn’t think I was going to get this far into higher ed. Cause I thought it’s too tough. And I’m like, yeah, but yeah . . . And kind of going on with that, what pushed me is I always kept on putting in the back of my head, I’m like, I’m doing this for my parents. I’m doing this to not be another statistic in terms of a dropout rate. Trying to add more to the positive statistics, right? So students of color being able to go to college and graduating with a four-year degree and this and that. And so I just kept putting those in the back of my head and pushing myself and just– Cause I mean, college is different and it’s hard in its own way compared to like high school. High school was tough because it felt like a job. You wake up, you go to class, like you gotta go each– You were in line, right? Whereas like college, it was great. Cause it’s like, you’re not, you’re not controlled in that sense anymore, right? And it’s like, damn, like this is way better. But then it’s like, you get the classes, and it’s like, damn, the work is different, though. 

Lux: How would you describe it as different? Like we’ve actually heard this from a lot of folks, like not knowing exactly what to expect as a first-gen student or even– I mean, truly . . . What do you think are the big overall differences between being in a high school space versus a college space? You mentioned having the autonomy to plan your schedule and do the classes that you choose. 

Kevin: Yeah, the biggest difference for me was just like, it’s– And I’ve probably heard it from like a couple of teachers in high school where it’s like, sometimes professors don’t care. And it’s like, it’s true. It’s like, they don’t care if you show up or if you don’t show up. So it’s like, it’s like, damn. And then it’s, it’s when you get into the class where you realize, cause it’s like, you think the classes in high school are big? No, these ones are bigger. So it’s like, you go into class, it’s like, okay, kind of expect like, oh, what we, what we thought in high school, right? No, it’s like triple, triple that sometimes in those cases, right? So it’s like, damn. 

Lux: Yeah, like those lecture style classrooms. You can wind up with probably close to a hundred folks in a class, right? 

Kevin: Easily. Yeah, so easily. And so it’s like, it’s, it’s really intimidating. Yeah. To be like, oh damn. It went from like 25 to 30 in the classroom to hundreds, easily hundreds, right? I’ll take that. And then it’s like, if you don’t coordinate with friends or anything, you’re in the class by yourself and you’re just like, you have to take notes by yourself. You have to push yourself to go to class by yourself. Like you don’t have that, that nice hand. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s definitely different. And for me, it’s because I, I started– So I graduated back in 2013. A while ago. It’s been a while now. 

Lux: Don’t you worry, I graduated back in 1997. So you’re in the current century. 

Kevin: Thank you for making me feel a little bit better. [Laughs] But even then, like, I feel like nowadays it’s, it’s still way . . . Like my experience, right? Way different from what I, what it looks like in today’s day and age. Graduating in 2013, I went to Weber State. So I was up in Northern, Northern Utah. And I didn’t realize how, how White it is up there. Especially at the time. I don’t know how it is now. I hear it’s, it’s definitely more diverse. I can’t really say, but I haven’t been up there in a while. But yeah, starting off, cause I got into automotive. There was only two colleges that really offered automotive technology, which was SLCC and Weber State. But I chose Weber State over SLCC because I’m like, the, the, what is it? The language, the, the wording, right? It’s like, a university is better than a community college. So it’s like, I’d rather go to Weber State because it’s university, this and that, right? So that’s, that was kind of my sense to picking between the two. And then it like, it didn’t really hit me later on until it’s like, damn, I forgot. Now I got to go all the way up to, to Ogden to go to class, to go to classes and.

Lux: Yeah, it’s a hell of a commute. 

Kevin: Yeah, really one hell of a commute. And I’m like, I’m like, I’m definitely not driving every day cause it’s too much on gas. Like, it’s just too much. Funny enough, I think each day that I did drive, there was always at least one crash either on the way there or on the way back.

Jimena: That’s annoying cause it just pushes your commute back and you’re stuck in traffic. 

Kevin: [Laughs] So yeah, it was, yeah. So I ended up taking the Front Runner most times.And that’s smart. And yeah, my first year doing automotive technology, I think I took three classes and then I took one gen ed. And then– So it was like, it was definitely weird cause my automotive classes, they were from 5:00 to 9 p.m.Like way late at night. Gen ed classes, I think I took them at midday. So like between 12:00, 1:00 or so. And then I just hang around on campus until my auto tech classes. 

Lux: It’s a long day. 

Kevin: It is a very long day. Cause it was almost every day, right? I think, well, I think it felt almost like every day. Cause I think my, my, yeah, my auto tech classes, they were Tuesdays and Thursdays. So they were twice a day, but like from 5 p.m. all the way to 9 p.m. I was just like, it’s, it’s so long. You see the day going into night, like then it’s just like– And then what I didn’t realize, like my first week is the last Front Runner leaves at like 10 or 9.30, like 9.45. I’m like, I gotta go to the bus. I gotta go to the station, like. 

Lux: Yeah, the commute time from the campus to the hub is pretty significant too. 

Kevin: Yeah, so I’m like, I’m scared. Like I’m gonna miss the Front Runner. But lucky me, I know how to talk to people, make friends in the class, right? And some of them were actually from North Salt Lake. So I’m like, okay. So they’re, they’re actually coming from, of course not like Salt Lake, but they were close to like Salt Lake. So I’m like, I’m like getting to talk to them, getting to know them. And like every now and then I’m like– Once I figured out they were from there, I’m like, “Did y’all drive? Did y’all drive up here or something? Like, can y’all at least drop me off at the Front Runner so I don’t have to wait for the bus and stuff.” Sometimes they were really nice enough to be like, you know, I’ll drop you off at the, at, like the, the station, what’s it called? Where’s Lagoon at? 

Lux: Oh, Farmington. 

Kevin: Farmington, yeah. The Farmington station. They’re, like, I’ll drop you off there or something. I’m like, that’s better than taking me to the Front Runner station up here. So I’m like, yeah, whatever works. And yeah, they were really nice. But, oh gosh, yeah. My, my time at Weber State– it was, it was alright, I think. And it being like 2013, right,is where I kind of was trying to gear towards this. Like my first year, I was, I didn’t think this, but I didn’t realize it. Looking around in each one of my classes, even my, my third semester there, I was literally the only student of color in every single one of my classes. I was just like, this is crazy. The only time that I wasn’t was my auto tech classes. You can go figure, that’s more like– You’ll see a lot of more people of color in that kind of field of work, right? So it’s like, but even then at Weber State, there was, like, two or three other ones. So it’s like, it was really less, not as many other students of color. But definitely, definitely weirded me out because it’s like my communications class, my writing 1010 class, my physics class out there– It’s just, I’m looking around, I’m like, I’m literally the only brown one. So I felt out of place. I’m like– Which I’m surprised was– [that it] didn’t get me to make more excuses of, like, more the reason for me not to go to college, right? Luckily, I didn’t think that way.And so I was just like, I’m like, I’m just like, you know what, let’s just get through this class, finish it, do all the assignments, get it done. And it wasn’t until that third semester where I’m just like, I’m tired of commuting up here. I started– I had friends at the University of Utah. They’d always tell me to come hang out with their student groups. And I had a friend from Upper Bound. He was the, I think at the time– Or he was becoming the co-chair for Mecha. 

Lux: Oh, cool! Nice! 

Kevin: So he was like, come down, like hang out with this group. Like this group is really cool. And I’m like, all right. So sometimes I would like the semester, I’d be like, I’ll take some time, go hang out with them at the U. And everybody was cool. Mecha was really cool. It was a nice invited group environment. Yeah, so it’s definitely thanks to that friend to be like, to like give me the more insight. I know TRIO brought me to the U. I took classes. I think my bridge, my bridge, it was weird. Cause I don’t think I technically transferred from my summer bridge program with the U cause they do offer college classes over the summer. So, like, current seniors are graduating and then they’ll go to college the next year, right? They’ll actually offer– There’s a separate summer programming for that specifically. You have to get accepted by the U and then you can do their summer program. So that was, like, the main requirement, which I think back then was still a little bit tougher because they were still asking for ACT scores, like a decent ACT score, good grades, good GPA, right? And I think it’s still– I don’t know. Did they require the essay? I don’t know if they required an essay.

Lux: I think so, probably. 

Kevin: I want to say yes, but so yeah, different now like admissions and like college applications is different, definitely different with the U at least from what I can remember. 

Lux: What does it include now? Like just for the sake of folks who are not yet at the U, what does it look like the application process these days? 

Kevin: What I can recall from being a college advisor, it used to be, my first year, I think it used to be just still their own college application, separate college application, which in my opinion was easy. COVID hit. 

Lux: Everything changed. 

Kevin: Everything changed. And it was around that time when they’re trying to get into, trying to be more well-known with like the PAC-12. So, like, trying to be closer to the Ivy League schools, right? Now they switched over to the Common App. I still hate the Common App. [Laughs] Cause, gosh, doing U Call . . . I don’t know if y’all did U Call, or I don’t know if . . .

Jimena: Isn’t it, like, when colleges come to your high school? Yeah, so I ended up doing it and I honestly found the Common App easy just because that was, everything was on there. So you just put all your information on there. And then I think you put in like the school code or something, and it sends your application. But, like, I know SUU school. I think it’s that one’s in St. George, no? It’s somewhere over there, wherever. [Laughter] They had a separate one. So I found that annoying, but I think they only ask, they make the essay optional and the SAT optional. As far as I remember. I don’t know. It feels like a long time ago. I don’t even remember applying for college, to be honest. 

Lux: Those memories are repressed now.

Jimena: Oh yeah. But they did have that event all week for like a whole week for seniors.

Lux: Okay, gotcha. 

Kevin: So, yeah, but Utah College Application Week is what it was called. So yeah, my first year being a college advisor, I think they were all separate ones, which I get, it is annoying to fill out each separate one. But the way I see it, it was like 10 to 20 minutes for each college application. Common App asked so many specific questions. 

Jimena: It was very long though, I will say. I was like, I don’t need help with this. Like I want help with my FAFSA, not this. Like I can figure this out on my own. It seems easy enough. Like I’m not trying to commit tax fraud with FAFSA. [Laughter]  So that’s what I used that week for, to use like the advisors and like all those people. I’m like, “Here’s this, help me with this. I can figure out the rest on my own.”

[Laughter] 

Kevin: So yeah, no, yeah. So it takes forever, right? So it’s like, it’s very specific questions. And I’m like, cool. I get the whole idea. It’s like, oh, you make one whole application and then you can start applying to like multiple schools with that application. I’m like, cool, that’s neat. Once it came to College Application Week and once we figured out like, okay, now they’re using the Common App, let’s see what this looks like. It’s a whole other process, sections. I had a lot of complaints in terms of, like, students coming up to me telling me, like, “My application’s done, I swear.” So it’s like, I go in there, I look at them, and I’m like, “You’re missing something still.” And how do I know? It’s because of the green check marks. The green check mark is like for sure, like, you know, you finished every section within each subsection. Like . . . 

Lux: It sounds like there are a lot of pieces to this application. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Lux: Geez.

Jimena: I remember taking it a long, long time ago. 

Kevin: But no, and then it depends on which university you’re applying to, right? Like, of course, most students here at the U– The essay was still optional. Talking to college admissions, admin and stuff, they still, and like the orientations and stuff, they still wanted to recommend it, especially students who didn’t have high grades. 

Jimena: It was highly encouraged. Yeah. 

Lux: To write the application letter or? 

Jimena: To write the essay letter and submit your SAT, but it wasn’t like a requirement, like it wouldn’t be like, if you don’t submit these things, you’re not gonna get accepted. It was just, like, highly, highly encouraged. 

Lux: I see. 

Kevin: Cause . . . And then again, it was around COVID, too. Yeah. So it’s like, then ACT scores took a hit, SAT scores took a hit. They felt– Luckily the education system didn’t, like . . . [They] deemed, like, it wasn’t good enough for these test scores to reflect the students, especially with COVID nowadays, right? So. Yeah. That was the one good thing that came out of it. Even though, in the whole sense, it really shouldn’t be based off test scores, right? 

Lux: I agree, I agree. 

Kevin: But luckily within that timeframe, it’s like, oh, they’re not requiring the ACT score to get into the U luckily. But they did highly recommend the essay part, which the students that I worked with, low-income first-gen students, I always told them, I’m like, “Even though it’s optional, still write in the section, kind of write your background, tell them where you’re at, especially with, if you didn’t have such a great high GPA, too.” I’m just like, “Just write your story, let them know where you’re coming from and show that you are a good student to be at the U, right?” And so, yeah. So I was somewhat okay and happy with how the U handled that situation with the Common App and applying those years with COVID. And so, yeah. And, but yeah, it is annoying. Both ends have their positives and negatives, right? Common App, it’s one application . . .

Jimena: I will say, it was easy for me because I put all my eggs in one basket. I was like, if it’s the U, great. If it’s something else, I’ll figure it out. That’s what I was like, eh, it’s fine. 

Kevin: Yeah, no, yeah. The other thing I think that’s caught off guard and you don’t get to know it until your senior year when you start applying: College application fees. 

Lux: Oh yes

Jimena: Yes

KevinE: You have to pay even to apply and it’s just like, what the heck? 

Lux: It’s wild. You’re like, “I’m paying you to read my application? Okay, that seems unfair.”

Kevin: Yeah, so it was just like one of the things that we’re, like, you gotta pay for the application just to get sent and all that. Not only that, then send your transcripts, and it’s a whole process. 

Lux: It really is. And being unfamiliar with it– All of us beginning are unfamiliar with it. It is so daunting and so scary. And you were like, I don’t know, I always worried about messing up, not like lying in any way, inadvertently, but like somehow answering a question wrong in a way that it negated the whole application. 

Jimena: That is literally me with FAFSA though.

[Laughter] 

Like I am terrified of that thing. I’m like, here’s my information, my taxes, my whole life, you do it for me. Like I cannot do it. I’m so scared of filling that out and being like the IRS, “Hey, you committed tax fraud.” No, no, no, no, no. 

Lux: Yeah, it makes me anxious just thinking about it. 

Jimena: You laugh, Kevin, but like since I started my undergrad, I have– Actually, even since high school, I never filled out my FAFSA. I always have somebody else do it for me. To this day, I don’t know how to fill it out. I’m just like, “Here, I’ll sign where you tell me.”

Kevin: Oh my gosh. 

Lux: And you personally have a load of experience with FAFSA. You’re the FAFSA man. 

Kevin: Oh gosh, I definitely not a fan when people tell me I’m a FAFSA expert because I’m like, I swear I’m not. I just filled it out many, many times. I, like, know what they ask. 

Jimena: Exactly, so, you know what to expect. 

Lux: So you are an expert. 

Jimena: You are an expert.

Lux: If you can, like, demystify those government forms, I consider you an expert, absolutely. 

Jimena: I would agree. 

Lux: That stuff is so complex. 

Kevin: Oh gosh, yeah. I mean, you wouldn’t believe like I’ve done– Well, it sucks because they just changed this year. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: So it’s like most of the things I just knew kind of flew out the door now because it’s like they ask new questions, they changed up, they supposedly, quote unquote, made it easier, right? 

[Laughter] 

Lux: Yeah. [Sarcastically] They’re so funny. 

Kevin: And then like easier to the point where it’s like now parents, regardless of immigration status, can now sign the FAFSA electronically, right? That’s like, oh, that’s good to hear. But once they start making the FSAID and all these complications, like there’s times where it’s like parents without SSN will start filling out the FAFSA or start creating their account. And there’s this one section where it’s like, “Oh, if you don’t have a social security number, click on this box so that you can check it off and all this stuff.” Some will click it, the box will show up, they’ll click it, right? But then they can’t even continue. Like it won’t let them continue onto the next– So it’s like, what do we do? Refresh it. Refresh it, the box is no longer there. So it’s like, well, can they click to then continue? And it was just a whole mess. And then not only that, like say they do get it created, right? Now it needs to be verified. How do they verify it? Call the number. How long are the calls? Two hours plus, three hours plus. 

Lux: What?

Kevin: And it’s just like- 

Jimena: I’m so glad I don’t have to do that no more. Phew!

Lux: Honestly, though, two to three hours just to verify it? 

Jimena: And like, are you just like waiting? 

Kevin: Yeah, you’re just- 

Jimena: So like on a waiting line, essentially, until you get to speak with somebody. 

Kevin: And the parent has to call because again, it’s their FSAD, so they’ve got to verify their own account. So they’re on there hours. Like I’ve heard, even in emails, or like updates with FAFSA–  Because I actually have a friend who– He was previously a college advisor too, and he got into that position with Yuhia or Yushi? Yuhia, one of the two, with FAFSA specifically. And he’s always emailing me updates and stuff. And all of us that are trying to keep up with FAFSA. He’s even mentioned, like, two to, like, four hours waits on calls. And it’s just like, just to get verified for those parents. 

Jimena: Which I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even take, like, more than five minutes to verify.

Kevin: Exactly, yeah. So- 

Lux: There’s no way to automate that, apparently. 

Kevin: No, there’s not. So I’m like, we’ll just revert it back to the other way. It’s just like, have them print it out, sign it, have one parent sign it, and then it’s all good. 

Jimena: I feel like it was so easy that way.Because like, you would fill out the paper, sign it, and then you kind of would just forget about it. And then you would just get an email saying, “Oh, like everything’s confirmed.” And you would just log in and check, like, double-check that they received it. And it was so nice. 

Lux: And you can still do that? 

Kevin: You can, but this is the other thing that I also hate with FAFSA is, not only, you know how there was one parent that just had to sign it? So now if tax forms, I think, if they show, like, married, filed jointly, or anything, both parents have to sign it now. So- 

Jimena: And so does that mean that each parent has to create their own ID? 

Kevin: Mm-hmm, yep. So now . . . So say you have two parents of immigrants, right? So you start off with one, thinking like,okay, finally you went over this. After they finishing out, finish filling out their portion of the application–because now it’s not one whole thing. Like the student will just see their section, and then it’ll just send them to invite their parent now. Because then they don’t see the parent information on their end anymore. So it’s just, “Oh, send an invitation to your parent.” 

Jimena: So it’s like almost two separate applications. 

Kevin: Yeah, three at most, if you have to fill out, if you have to have both parents sign it, so. 

Jimena: Three, oh my God. 

Kevin: So that’s- 

Jimena: I didn’t know that. 

Lux: It’s very bureaucratic then, right? Like, I mean, that’s how all systems in higher ed are. We love a bureaucracy. How do you– What do you do to encourage folks? Like, how do you get through that whole process? Like, what keeps you from just going like, fuck it. 

[Laughter] 

Kevin: Oh, gosh. I mean, that’s a good question. I don’t know how to answer that, because you need FAFSA, Pell Grant. It’s money you don’t have to pay back, right? I think it’s more fortunate for the high school students, too, because of the For Utah. So in order to get the For Utah, you need to be Pell-eligible. So then I can only imagine what the high school students are going through, if I’m already trying to- 

Jimena: Especially now, yeah. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Jimena: Wow. 

Kevin: So not only filling– If they want to come to the U, not only filling out Common App, now filling out the new FAFSA form, keeping track of, like, making sure that, not only do they have it processed, but filled it out or submitted in time for scholarships, for all these deadlines. And it’s just like, and it’s not their fault. It’s FAFSA’s fault. It’s, it could be the U’s fault, right? To be like, you’re putting these deadlines when it’s, like, you know, FAFSA’s having these situations and yeah . . . So if you don’t accommodate, you’re losing out on, like, a lot of students, essentially. And so I can only imagine what the process is for these seniors, at least, trying to come in, right? Hopefully next year will be better because it should still come up, even though this year, I think it opened end of December or beginning of this year, January 1st. It should still open up in October, from what I’m aware of, at least. So now that they have this whole system running, the next school year, it should be, it should still be available in October. So at least hopefully they’ll have that time to start filling it out and getting the whole verification process done and all that stuff, so. 

Lux: Do you help a lot of, like, incoming students with FAFSA or is it more, like, students who are already established at the U–like matriculated and everything? 

Kevin: Being with First-Gen [Scholars], we mostly focus on students who’ve been accepted at the U. So if they, if we know that they’ve been accepted, like, we see them at orientation or anything like that, we know they’re for sure in the U. So it’s like, okay, then we could put our effort into them, making sure that they get all set up for the fall semester the following year, right? So we’ll help them out. And I think over the summer– It depends on if they check their emails over the summer. 

Lux: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 

Kevin: Right, so it’s like, okay, I’ll send an email out. And even then, it’s like, if they put the personal one, if it’s not the right personal one, then I use their Umail. If they’re just starting at the U, do they really look at their Umail? Do they know how to log in to check their email? 

Lux: Yeah

Kevin: So it’s like, it’s a lot of things.And so luckily there’s, most students are well on top of it. They do see their emails and they do reach back out. And if they don’t hear from me or like I sent it, they’ll reach out to me and say, like, “Hey, I didn’t hear back.” I’m like, “Did you check your other email then? Cause I’m like, I’m pretty sure I sent you one.” [Laughs] And then they go check and they’re like, “Oh yeah, you did actually.” And I’m like, “There you go. There you go.” [Laughs] Yeah. So…but they still end up asking for the same information. So, it’s like, it’s no, it’s no big deal, at least on my end, I don’t see it as a big deal. So I’m like, no, it’s okay. Just here’s the link, here’s the application. Fill this out, get into the program and this and that. And then if they do have any questions or want to set up appointments, I’m more than happy to see them and meet with them and all that. Especially because I think even the application process is not easy. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: It’s still tough. So, wow, that went on a long time. 

Lux: No, this is great. So this kind of leads into my next question actually pretty well, talking about FAFSA. As a first-gen student, did you feel like your financial status had an impact on your access to higher ed? 

Kevin: Oh yeah, definitely. I was– I still, even to this day, I still feel like I fit these labels of, like, first-gen, low-income. Because college is expensive. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: It’s great to get the Pell Grant from FAFSA because then it covers most of it. But then it’s like, you still need a decent amount of money to still pay for it, right? I was lucky enough, my senior year, I actually didn’t come to the U first. So I went to Weber State. I think I was looking up– that my program money covered all of my tuition at Weber State. So I didn’t have to worry too much. And not only that, on top of that, I was so surprised because I did get the West High Alumni Scholarship. And I think the first time I got it was like $1500. So I’m like, cool. I got Pell Grant. I got the scholarship. For sure, at least my first semester is going to get paid off, right? And then I was kind of, I was thrown off guard because I think July, just before August, like middle of summer, I’m like, I got another thing in the mail from West High Alumni. I’m like, what the heck? So I open it up and I’m just like, “Congratulations, you got a scholarship.” And I’m like, “I already got one though? I’m like, is this a mistake? It’s like, yeah, like, is this a mistake? Did they accidentally send me like another one? Did they send me the wrong one?” Because this one said a thousand. 

Jimena: Never question it, Kevin. 

[Laughter] 

Jimena: Never question it. Just take it and run with it.

Kevin: Well, I’m afraid because I’m like, I’m like, wait, I don’t want, again, being scared. I’m like, you have to pay this money back. That’s true. But we don’t know that. But I was just so confused.And I’m like, and it’s over the summer. I wasn’t expecting anything else. So I’m like, it’s a thousand– I’m like, “So is it $1500, or is it a thousand?” Come to figure out, I go to the school and it’s just like, “Actually you got two.” So I’m like…o I ended up getting $2,500 from West High Alumni. And I’m like, what? Like, it just, it was great. It was a great feeling because I’m like, for sure, first semester’s paid off. I can use that extra money for whatever I need, and it’ll buy me a car with it. And yeah, it was just nice, like, money. And I tried my best to save that money in case I needed to pay for more tuition, right? But like I said, most of, if not all my Pell Grant covered my first full year at Weber State. So I didn’t have to worry about paying out of pocket or none of that. And I think it wasn’t until that, what was it? That spring semester? No. Yeah, spring semester where I finally got my first full-time job. Because then, before then, I’d worked with my parents. Like they were custodians at random buildings, at least my dad, right? And then he was like, what’s it called? He’s essentially like a handyman. He works on everything and anything, like, inside and outside the house. So he’d take me on jobs over the weekends because he needed extra hands. And so he’d pay me every now and then. It wasn’t much, of course, which I mean– even in the first place, I was happy to get any kind of money because I’m like, cool. 

Lux: Yeah, for sure. 

Kevin: But no, yeah, it wasn’t until that spring semester where I was 18, I finally got my first job. And it was at Ken Garff Honda, the downtown dealership. Hence with like automotive technology, right? So it’s just like trying to get my foot in the door and all that stuff. And when I share the experience, I like to tell students, it does make a difference kind of where you do go. Because when I applied there, I think I applied for, not necessarily to work on cars, but kind of starting out, like, cleaning cars and stuff. So I interviewed for that position. And then I got a call the next day to be like, “Hey, we want you to come back and interview for a different position that we have.” And it was more of, like, the ones in the back. So I’m like, “Oh, okay.” I think they were all full and workers in the back for, like, line workers to, like, do quick oil changes and small jobs. But they wanted to start me off in, like, the lot. So kind of go from the like lot tech to line tech and then kind of move my way up. And so it was weird. So, and they did that because they saw I was going to Weber State. They know Weber State has a really good program for automotive students, right? So it’s like, oh, okay. So it slightly does make a difference where you do go to college, right? But yeah, and it was just weird. So I got my first full-time job, hated it because I was full-time working and a full-time student.

Lux: Ugh, that is brutal. How long did you do both full-time? 

Kevin: For at least a semester, I think. Yeah, for at least– Because I think I worked there for five, six months. Yeah, because I worked out through the summer, a little bit over the summer, too, because I didn’t have anything else to do. I didn’t take any summer classes, but it really sucked because I missed out on like some midterms. And I’m like, I’m like, I’m accommodating more for my job than I am for school. And I’m just like, “I’m missing out on midterms. I’m missing on assignments. Like I’m doing, I’m going to do bad in college if I keep working my ass off at like say this full-time,” right? And so it’s like, I don’t know how some people can do full-time work and full-time students. For me, it wasn’t, it wasn’t it– It was too tough for me. And it was really like active labor, too. So I’m like, I’m running around the dealership, moving cars, cleaning cars. Like not only was it like 40 hours a week, it was like physical labor. So that on top of like trying to study, trying to do education, it was a lot. So when it comes to students and talking about work, I always recommend part-time. Cause essentially after that, I think, yeah, I quit my job. I went, my next full semester at Weber State, I did just focus on school, did a lot better for sure. Felt like I was more active in my classes, like active listening and all that stuff. And so, but I still needed a job cause how else am I going to pay for this stuff, right? And then that’s where I became an AVID tutor. 

Lux: Oh, nice! That’s awesome. 

Kevin: Cause I remember I’m like, “If I can’t do this, I still need to find something.” And I remember my AVID teacher would be like, “If you ever need a job, come back to be, like, a part-time tutor.” And I’m like, “You know what? I’m gonna use that now.” Luckily she was still there at West High. And I’m like, “Hey, how do I apply to be a tutor?” Like, and so, yeah. And I started being a tutor beginning of 2015. Yeah, somewhere around there. And stayed at West for like another three, almost four years. 

Lux: Wow, so like the whole of your degree mostly. 

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

Lux: That’s incredible. 

Kevin: So I worked part-time there. And then once I figured out work-study, I was like, “Cool, I’ll do work-study, too.” So I ended up being two part-time jobs. Luckily, both fairly flexible. 

Jimena: I was gonna say. Because two part-time jobs is pretty much almost like a full-time job. 

Kevin: Yeah. Which, yeah. And I had to be strategic, right? In terms of planning out everything. So, like, work, school. So I ended up doing a lot of online classes, which it’s– I think, in my opinion, nowadays, because of COVID, online classes are way different from when I took them, right?

Lux: Oh, yeah. Totally. 

Kevin: The way you like– And I would recommend online classes. I’m like, it gives you flexibility. Professors are still willing to work with you, even though you don’t see them face-to-face. And it’s still another good outing, too, where you don’t have to come up to the U. You don’t have to go to class, sit in a class for like another hour. So it’s more time for yourself to get things done on your own time. That’s the way I saw it, right? So I essentially took– I think I took at least three online classes and one in-person one. So leaving that extra time outside of the classroom to work– To work, save up money, pay for college. Cause I wasn’t getting any other scholarships, so I’m like– And the U was more expensive. After Pell Grant, I still owed another $1500 on this. Like where am I gonna pay this money? 

Lux: Not to mention textbooks, right? 

Kevin: Yes. Oh God, textbooks. These are even more expensive. It’s so annoying. [Laughs]

Lux:  It is, it really is. Do you remember what the range was generally for textbooks on average a semester? 

Kevin: Oh God, looking them up, easily over a hundred each time. Easily over a hundred. 

Lux: For each one? 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Lux: Oh wow. 

Jimena: Yeah, that still adds up. It’s a little more, but– 

Kevin: Yeah, no matter what. And looking for books, I’m always trying to find the cheapest way out, right? And I don’t see this with the U anymore, surprisingly. I don’t know why, or maybe it’s still there and I can’t find it. But on the used campus store website, there used to be a section where it’s like, you can look up your textbooks, but then they give you options of where else you can buy them, too.  

Lux: Oh, that’s really nice. 

Kevin: So I don’t see that anymore on the U campus store anymore. So I’m just like- 

Jimena: It gives you an option to buy them used, which is a little bit cheaper. But it doesn’t give you other options unless . . . you kind of have to look for those options on your own. 

Kevin: Yeah, because then they’d list out other specific websites and be like, “Oh, you can buy an online ebook for this much, or Amazon for this much. [It was] like way cheaper.

Jimena: You kind of just have to do that now. I will say Amazon has a [service for] renting your textbooks. So you can rent them from Amazon and then return them. And sometimes that’s a little cheaper so I’ve done that. They don’t give you the actual options on the website. 

Kevin: So that kind of sucks. Yeah.

Jimena: You just have to know. If you don’t know, then you just have to buy them. 

Kevin: I think that’s where the U is also getting greedy now too, where it’s like, buy them at the U, nowhere else. And so it’s like, they want to get more money out of you. 

Lux: Yeah. Yeah, I could totally see that. 

Kevin: And in terms of textbooks, yeah. I mean, luckily, for that, the campus store where they had it in place. I find cheaper textbooks either online or . . . Amazon. There was a couple of Amazon books that I found. There was one time where I got scared though, cause I swear I bought a book on Amazon. When I got it, it had a sticker for rent. And I’m like, I’m like, “No, I bought it. I’m not renting it. I swear I bought this.” So that kind of gave me a scare, but I didn’t get anything else back from Amazon to be like, hey, return your books. So I’m like, okay. 

Lux: “Alright, I did buy it.”

Kevin: Yeah, I did buy it. And then not only that, KSL. 

Jimena: Oh, I never thought of that.

Kevin: I went on KSL, seeing what other textbooks are out there. I actually found some for even cheaper. Some for Weber State specifically, right? So it’d be like, “Oh, you took this class?” I’m like, “I need this book for this class.” And they’d have it. And they sell it for a lot cheaper on KSL, so. 

Lux: Now the library, too, will buy textbooks. You can always recommend that to students. 

Kevin: The library? 

Lux: Yeah, we love buying textbooks. 

Jimena: I will say, and now they’re doing inclusive access. So if you have scholarships, they just pay for it. So you don’t have to pay for your textbook. So I’m like, don’t opt out, because if you do, then you have to pay for it. But if you don’t, it’s just included into your tuition automatically, which might stay in them. I know it sometimes is annoying to have a digital one, but also I would rather have that than pay $80 for a stupid book I probably won’t use after this class. 

Kevin: Oh yeah. And what sucks is there’s like a hidden fee with the online classes that I took here, right? It’s an online fee. And then there’s also, they have their own online book fee too. So it’s like, you have to use the online book. It was annoying. But, luckily, me being…I was still living with my parents, right? Cause even then, I don’t know how people–even out of state–live off-campus right now without their parents. Cause that’s the whole other section. So, luckily, I didn’t go through that. I still live with my parents. They didn’t charge me rent or anything. So I had the nice, comfy…like work, save my money, just put it all into education, right? So I was– I think I’m really lucky. And it’s crazy. Cause I feel like around that time, too, where it’s like a lot of people are like…I don’t know if it’s [just in] Utah, where it’s like, “Oh, you still live with your parents and you’re over 18 already?” I’m like, “So?” 

Jimena: People do see it as being weird. I’m like, hey, I’m not paying no rent. Like all my money’s for me, like groceries. I don’t have to buy, like, nothing. Everything’s covered. 

Kevin: It could just be for first-gen students. It could be for low-income students, right? To where it’s like, it could be a secondhand embarrassment, where it’s like, “Oh, I still live with my parents.” Like who wants to know if they’re still with their parents? I’m like, “I don’t care. I’m saving money. They’re feeding me.” I don’t–

Jimena: You don’t have to worry about essentially anything. Just going to school and doing good. And that’s really it. 

Lux: Oh no, I lived at home until my parents moved. 

[Laughter]

Lux: I wish I were joking. It’s true. [Laughs] So with working two part-time jobs or even just one part-time job and balancing schoolwork, social/family obligations, and a job, how do you manage that work-life balance? 

Kevin: [Laughs] That’s a good one. I think it comes down to personal priorities. It’s– The way I see it, I’m like, what I need to do for sure is focus on school and work. School because, of course, you’re trying to receive a degree. You essentially get a better job towards the end, right? Work because you need the money. Like you can’t do anything else without the money. So those two were always my priority. And then after that, if I felt I had enough time to do something, relax, and then I started hanging out with friends and stuff. And so, yeah, I think it really depends on personal priorities. My priorities were always work and education, and then hang out with friends and stuff, if there is time and stuff. But I did essentially after like getting a good rhythm of, like, where my work time is, where my education time is, then I prioritize hanging out with friendsbecause that helps out a lot. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin: Because it’s cool if you’re just working on education by yourself, and you’re not hanging out with friends, [but] it’s gonna take a toll on you emotionally. Whereas once you finally start hanging out with friends, it’s like, you know you’re not in this alone. There’s other friends out there also going through the same shit. And it’s just nice knowing that you’re not the only one, right? 

Lux: Yeah, you can kind of get [stuck] in your head when you’re isolated, and things can feel like maybe you’re the only one having these experiences. So, yeah. A lot of folks have mentioned that, coming to the university, they’ve experienced imposter syndrome. Is that something that you’ve experienced? 

Kevin: Oh yeah. I think starting Weber State, right? Only being the only brown student in every single one of my classes. But the funny thing is I didn’t know about this term until I worked at First-Gen [Scholars]. When I worked at First-Gen, they told me that [one of] the first classes they usually start off with is imposter syndrome. And I’m like, “Imposter syndrome? Like, what is this? I’m barely now just hearing about this?” The more they talk about it, I’m like, “Wait, I went through this, essentially, when I started out at Weber State, and I didn’t even know it.” And it sucks because it’s like now knowing that term, that terminology, I think you start connecting it with a lot of things. Not only with education, but with work now, right? And that’s kind of how I felt like when I started this position with First-Gen scholars. So I’m like, I was never part of the program previously. I knew about the program because I had a lot of friends in the program. Most of them I think were mentors. And it was funny because they told me about the program. They’re like, “Join! You can become a mentor. They pay you to be a mentor. They pay you to go to school.” And I’m like, “That’s cool.” But at the time it was, I think, my third year. And I was like, again, I got everything kind of like handled down. I knew where my rhythm was at. I felt comfortable with it. So if I wanted to add this, I know that it sounded like a more–a bigger obligation, right? To be like a mentor or anything like that, which . . . I wish I had seen the program how it is now, right? And I’m sure that’s how it was back then, too. I think I would have liked being in the program for sure. Because it’s, again, you make a nice community on campus. Like my community was with Mecha and Somos, where it’s like I could have made that community even bigger if I joined Beacon. And so I do regret it a little bit for not joining Beacon [the previous name of the program] back then– First-Gen Scholars. Because I’m sure I could have made way more friends and stuff and more connections, right? More connected to people. But at the time I had my rhythm, I had my flow. I didn’t want to disrupt that. Working two part-time jobs, already being full-time education.

Jimena: Which makes sense. 

Lux: Yeah. Yeah, it really does. I mean, like you said, not having knowledge about what that would look like [joining the program], how it would shake out, like what your responsibilities are. Yeah. But now that you are a member of First-Gen Scholars, would you say that it’s like– Would you recommend it to other first-gen students? 

Kevin: Oh yeah. A hundred percent. I’m seeing–even though I’m staff, right?–seeing it amongst the students. I’m just like, it’s more for the students, not for me. Once I see easy connections [being made] here left and right, it’s just like, it’s nice. It’s like, yeah…First week, second week might be awkward because it’s like, everybody’s kind of new, especially the first years, right? If they don’t come from the same schools, they’re just trying to get to know new people. But like, once you see, once they get into the families and everything, they start bonding. It’s like, they get so– They get along so quick. And it’s like, I see that within myself, but with Mecha, with Somos. It was like that kind of community, right? Where it’s like, I’m new to this group, but everybody invites you, everybody’s friendly, everybody’s, you know…I always love to recommend First-Gen [Scholars] now to everybody to be like– more so than ever, right? Like how I wasn’t in it, but I want you to be in it because I know what I missed out on. 

Lux: Yeah, that makes sense. 

Kevin: So I’m like, get in this program. It’ll definitely help you out. I don’t think I fully answered the last question, the imposter syndrome. I think, yeah, even to current days, I think it still follows me. Like being in this position, when I talk to a higher admin, I feel like I’m still like, I’m not, of course I’m not on their level in terms of professionalism or anything, right? But I always try to fight it to be like, I earned this spot, right? I earned this place where I’m supposed to be. I shouldn’t look down on myself to be like, not in these talks with these higher ed people, the higher admin people, right? And so trying to put myself on their level. Cause again, I’m very against power dynamics. I’m always seeing everybody, higher or lower, at the same level as me. Like, yes, I understand the position, but I’m also like, I’m a human, right? We shouldn’t treat each other like shit. 

Lux: So we’re jumping around a little bit, but as far as your choosing a major or your career path, did your first-gen status have a role in how you went about choosing your major? 

Kevin: Yes and no. Again, even back then, like definitions, I don’t know if they were straight, like defined. 

Lux: They’re still not. 

[Laughter] 

Kevin: Cause again, like first-gen, and I hear this still too with like new students coming into the U, right? It’s like, “Oh, [you’re the] first in your family to go to college?” I’m thinking, I’m like, “I’m the second brother. My older brother–he’s the first one to go to college. So I’m like, I’m not first-gen. He’s first-gen.”

Jimena: I feel like a lot of people have that notion. 

Lux: Yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of a misnomer. 

Kevin: And it wasn’t until somebody else explained to me, probably in UB, one of my advisors probably was just like, no, it’s generations of lines. So it’s like, your parents are the first generation, you’re the second generation. So if that generation didn’t go to college, you’re the next generation–technically the first to go to college. So it’s like, oh, okay. Now I realize it’s like, not my brother, but I’m part of like– Me and my brother are both first-gen. 

Jimena: My brother had that realization. He finally knows what he wants to do and he’s going to go to SLCC. So he’s saving all this money, which is great, right? He’s like, “You know, I can’t like– There’s all these scholarships that I found, but I can’t apply because I’m not first-gen.” I’m like, “Dude, what are you talking about? You need to apply.” He’s like, “Oh, I already missed the deadline to two that I found.” I was like, “Oh my God.” And then I explained to him, and his mind was literally blown. 

[Laughter] 

Lux: The terminology is not straightforward, that’s for sure. 

Kevin: No, yeah. 

Lux: I mean, we love our jargon in higher ed, don’t we? And making categories. 

Kevin: No, it’s definitely tough. I think education–K through 12 systems, right?–I think they do a little bit better job in terms of like, yes, do well in education, but also giving hints in the sense of like continuing that education, higher education, right? Given like those terminologies, those terms and stuff. And so it’s like, so that students can realize it’s like, oh, they know what to look out for in the future. 

Lux: Yeah. It’s like there’s a literacy around navigating higher ed. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Lux: How, if at all, has your first-generation status impacted your social and emotional well-being–when you were a student? 

Kevin: Oh, gosh. How it affected my social– 

Lux: And emotional well-being, yeah. 

Kevin: Well, I think for me, at least for like not knowing the term exactly, I guess I didn’t really take it too into consideration or too into account. 

Lux: Yeah.

Kevin: So just kind of seeing myself being out there learning, learning like anybody else. I can say that I didn’t really look at myself differently. Only– The only difference I look at myself is ethnicity. So of course, I’m brown, I’m Mexican, right? Mexican-American. That was like the only more identifying thing that I took into account more than anything. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: So I don’t think I thought too much into being first-gen, taking a hit on things like my social or emotional well-being. It was more so like my ethnicity. 

Lux: So the U is a, I mean–obviously, it goes without saying–a historically and predominantly white university. And we are right now in the process of becoming a Hispanic-serving institution. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. 

Kevin: Yeah. I mean, I know they brought somebody in to start making the U an HSI, right? I’m like, I could kind of see that, but in terms of statistics, in terms of ethnicity, yes, it is. I think it’s still predominantly white. I still see a lot of white students around. 

Jimena: Oh, a thousand percent. 

Kevin: Even just walking regularly on campus, right? Where it’s like, oh, I need to go to the library somewhere. I don’t really see that many students of color, especially in the realm of like Latinx group, right? And it’s cause I think it’s like,they know where they wanna be, like in certain spaces, right? They know what spaces they wanna be in. They know where to go to. They know where to hang out. And so you don’t, I feel like we don’t really see them. I feel like they’re really hidden at times.

Lux: Do you feel like that’s driven more by personal reasons, or do you feel like it’s the culture of the campus that kind of sends people into, I guess like less visible places, too? 

Kevin: The way I see it and probably for myself is probably more personal. Cause I’m like, if I know I don’t feel comfortable in these places, why am I gonna be here? 

Lux: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s totally fair. 

Kevin: So yeah, I think it gears towards more personal preferences in a sense. And it’s like, if I know I’m part of a student group, I’d rather go hang out with Mecha, or I’ll go rather hang out with Somos. And it’s like, so I’ll put myself in these places because I know that I’ll be welcomed, right? That I’ll be heard and all that. And so I think the culture does, like the U’s culture does take effect in a little bit, but I think it ends up being more personal preference to where it’s like, the student understands the culture already and it’s like, they know where to find essentially their space, their people and stuff. And so I think it means a little bit more toward that way.

Lux: Do you feel like the university is aware of that and doing anything to support students of color? 

Kevin: [Laughs] Sorry, I’m laughing because I’m like, hell no. I think hell no. 

Lux: We’re on the same page.

Kevin: Because I mean, the biggest one, at least what’s happening around right now, right? With Mecha, they being disconnected. It’s, they’re showing no support to a student group, a student group that is made up of students of color, right? So it’s like, they’re showing no support in that. 

Lux: And this was . . . for those listeners who aren’t aware of what happened with Mecha. There was a protest at a filming [edit: screening] of an anti-trans film and Mecha students showed up to protest and were arrested and charged with misdemeanors. Yeah, it’s… It’s astonishing. I mean, it’s not surprising, but it definitely should not have happened. Oh no, 100% not. Like the university should have protected these students. Oh yeah. With the same amount of protection that the other student group was receiving.

Kevin: And it wasn’t equal. 

Lux: Yeah, I thought hate crimes were illegal and hate speech. 

Jimena: Yeah

Lux: But it sure shows a different set of priorities. 

Kevin: Oh yeah. And I mean, you look closely, right? Mecha is, again, students of color, right? A group of students of color. Yeah. Like the other thing that annoyed me, too, was hearing that the whole football team got trucks.

Jimena: Oh my gosh. Did you know that?

Lux: No, I didn’t know this. 

Kevin: It’s this like, yeah, they’ve gotten trucks. They’ve gotten brand new computers, like Mac computers, headphones, like all these things. And I’m like, “Well, what about all these other students? What about all these other student groups?” Oh, it’s just so insane.

Lux: It sure doesn’t feel like they’re distributing an equal or equitable amount of care, resources, services across all student groups.They’re focusing– 

Jimena: They’re definitely not. 

Lux: Yeah, athletics has their– They have a special role on our campus for sure. I think that’s the most politic way to say it maybe, but– 

Jimena: Can you imagine getting trucks for all first-gen students? Not even trucks. Can we get a small, tiny little Honda Civic? I will take it. I’m down for anything, it doesn’t have to be a truck, but–”

Kevin: So yeah. And imagine that– How much of that money could have been for scholarships? So to me, it’s really annoying. And like, I get it, athletics does bring a lot. It’s the U’s football, it’s the Utah football thing, right? Which I understand it, athletics, the athletic end of it and stuff– That brings more money in and whatnot. But I’m like, you’re still a university, still be equitable to every single student on campus. Share the love. 

Jimena: It doesn’t even make sense because– Somebody that’s first-gen, they come into the U and they’re like, “Oh, wow. Like they don’t care, but they care so much about athletics. Like it just goes to show I don’t really matter here.” 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Lux: Did you get that feeling a lot as a student, or has it changed for you as a staff member? 

Kevin: I think it went the opposite way when I was a staff member. 

Lux: Yeah. You become more radicalized. 

Kevin: Yeah. No, as a student, I think it felt that way as a student because of my peers, my mentors. They made it seem that way where it’s like, oh, the U’s here to help you. I’m in this position to support you, right? So it’s like, it felt that way. So it’s like, as a U student, I felt supported essentially by the university. Why? Because of my mentors, my advisors here. They were all very supportive. They all were working towards my success and stuff. And so it’s like, yeah. You know, being on the other side as a staff member, it’s way different. And I still use the terminologies that my mentors, my peer mentors did, right? It’s like, I give it more of the sense like, I’m here for you. Technically I am part of the U. So it’s like, it may look that way, but I’m more so just trying to give it to my own personal self of like, no, I’m here for you. I work for the university, but I’m here for you. So there’s definitely, I definitely want to say there’s a huge disconnect, especially when I got hired on. And with undergraduate studies, it’s been a whole ride. 

Lux: That’s a very diplomatic way to say it. Feeling a sense of belonging on campus has been a big issue for the university administration. We hear a lot about, like, “U belong.” There’s a whole campaign. Do you feel like you experienced a sense of belonging as a student here? And this can go– This can probably relate back to what you were saying earlier about how the demographics of this place are very skewed. But yeah, please feel free.

Kevin: Oh yeah. I think [one of the] best examples I can probably give is like an example with Weber State. So I feel like there wasn’t a lot of advertisements for a lot of other things to be like, “Oh, this is like a nice community for students of color.” They did have a multicultural center, I believe. And I think I did–the funny thing is–I think I got a scholarship from them. And one of their requirements was to go visit their office. And I don’t think I ever did. 

[Laughter]

Jimena: If you still got the money, hey. 

Kevin: I got it for one semester. They took it away the next semester. Which I felt bad for, right? Cause I’m like– And again, it’s probably not their fault. I think it’s more like the campus atmosphere. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: In a sense, right? Where it’s like, I’m like, oh, okay. I know there’s a multicultural office, but being around campus? Again, I’m the only student– I didn’t really feel myself compelled to go to the multicultural center to be like, like, I don’t know . . . It just, something wasn’t drawing me there for some reason. And so, and I don’t know if that was, again, due to lack of advertisements or getting [unintelligible]. Like, cause to me it was more so getting emails from my advisor be like, “Hey, you need to meet with your multicultural advisor.” And I’m just like, when you tell a student that they have to do something, it’s just like–

Jimena: They don’t want to do it. 

Kevin: They don’t want to do it. So that’s– And that’s how I felt. I’m like, you’re telling me to do this. The more you keep telling me, I’m not, I’m not, I’d rather not do it. Especially on a really predominantly white campus. Cause I’m just like, no, I’d rather just go to class, get my shit done. 

Jimena: Cause it almost feels like you’re getting targeted. Like you have to go do this. Like right now it’s like, well . . . ?”

Lux: Yeah. And it’s like extra stuff. In addition to all the stuff that you’re already doing, here’s this extra piece. 

Kevin: So it, yeah. So with that, I didn’t sense, I didn’t sense the belonging, at least at Weber State. So, cause again, I wasn’t seeing my people. I didn’t see any, any other student groups like Mecha or like someone was out there. So I’m just like, there’s nothing out here for me. So I definitely didn’t feel a good sense of belonging. Whereas it wasn’t until I got my friend from Mecha, who became a co-chair, and he was just like, “Oh, he’s just coming to hang out.” So, and it’s like, once I started hanging out with them, I felt more of a sense of belonging there than anything, which then contributed to my transfer to the University of Utah instead of Weber State. 

Lux: That makes a lot of sense. A lot. Yeah.

Kevin: So I think it was definitely those communities like Mecha and Somos Dreamers that really compelled me to come to the U instead of like anything else really. So, and just being with them made me get a good sense of belonging. I’m sure Beacon would have definitely contributed to that as well. 

Lux: Beacon was the name of First-Gen Scholars a few years ago. 

Jimena: Formerly known as Beacon. 

Lux: Formerly known as Beacon, yeah. I believe it was an acronym at some point. I don’t know what it stands for. 

Kevin: I don’t think so. 

Lux: Really?

Kevin:  Yeah, I think they just, it was just called Beacon Scholars. Like even my friends that were in it, they didn’t say if it stands for something. It was just called Beacon Scholars. And even then, right, they told me to join them, and I was like, “But what’s Beacon?” Like I’d ask them like, “What is this?”

Lux: “What does that mean exactly?”

Kevin: Yeah. And then it wasn’t until like the change to First-Gen Scholars, right? It’s like, ah, okay, now we know. It’s for first-gen students. 

Lux: Since those student groups played such a big role in your feeling a sense of community on this campus, as a staff member of First-Gen Scholars now, is this one of the ways that you encourage students to, I guess, immerse themselves in college life? 

Kevin: Um, yes and no. I don’t think I express it too often because it’s more so– I’d rather get a good sense of where the students are at first. Like if they– Kind of like where I was at, right? Like if I’m comfortable, I know my rhythm. I don’t want to disrupt their rhythm with like, “Oh, you should try seeking out this opportunity” or anything like that. If they already have a good rhythm going on, right? It’s more so– It’s like if the opportunity comes up to bring it up, then I’ll bring it up. It’s like, if the student says, “Oh, like the U’s nice and whatever. I just can’t seem to find something like this.” And then I’ll be like, “Oh, well, have you looked into this student group?” and kind of give that access to the opportunity or that resource. And so for me, I think it depends on the student because again, I–even as an advisor–I never really enjoyed– Well, definitely not enjoyed, but I never really liked to force a student to do something that they didn’t want to. And so I always give–and not all the time–but I think most of the times where I tell students, I’m like, “I’m here to listen. You have all the power. I’m not telling you what to do. It’s more so what you want to do for yourself.” And so, giving them that sense of power, right? That they have their control over their own life, right? And it kind of sucks at times. Cause I remember one– I just remember this memory that I had at Taylorsville with a student. They were undocumented. And it was, for me, it was kind of sad and hard to hear them say things like they wouldn’t have come to me if I wasn’t a person of color, like, at all for help. And I’m just like, which I’m like, it’s hard to hear, but I’m like, I understand. 

Lux: Yeah, totally. 

Kevin: I’m like, being a person of color, I don’t know if you can trust a white person or somebody else. And so– Especially being of the undocumented status, right? And it’s like, yeah, to hear this student be like, “Oh, I wouldn’t have [gone to First-Gen Scholars]. I would have never seeked help unless you were Mexican or unless you were, you know, this ethnicity.” I’m just like, it was crazy. I think it was definitely the first time I ever heard that, too. I’m like, and then more so the reason why people of color need to be in these positions. 

Lux: Yes. Looking at the stats from, I want to say it was 2022, we were seeing faculty numbers– around 88% identifying as white, and staff was 80%. So if we’re not seeing people of color in these positions, exactly like that student said to you, students will potentially not seek out resources or services because they feel that much more inaccessible. 

Kevin: Which, I mean, I fully agree. Cause I think at the time when the previous president, Ruth Watkins. I think when she was around the campus felt more vibrant, more open, felt like there was a more diverse group of students out and about, not just in offices, but out and about. And it’s just like, it was a good sense of belonging everywhere and anywhere. I think in my opinion, right? Like I thought she was doing a really good job. And when I heard she was quitting, I was like, no. And I don’t know. In my honest opinion, I think that’s where the U started to go downhill. Now, after getting this new president, after working with our new VP of undergraduate studies, it’s been terrible to work in these spaces, in my opinion. Cause it’s– They’re both white. I don’t know about the president, but the VP. And I say, he claims to be first-gen. Hence why he’s so supportive of these first-generation programs. To me, it’s like, yeah, right. Cause I’m like, the more I talk to him, the more I see him, the more I see his role as higher up, more of a boss than a leader, I’m just like, “I don’t think you really know what first-gen means.” I honestly can–and this is me just being too afraid cause, again, he’s higher admin, and I kind of know my position right away–if I didn’t have so much fear in me, I would probably call him out to be like, “You’re not first-gen. I don’t think you’re first-gen. Cause you don’t know what we go through.” 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: I’m pretty sure my experience is totally different growing up than what he did, right? So, yeah.

Lux: If you were to–and I’m sure this does happen to you quite often because of your position–when you talk to a student who’s considering being the first in their family to do higher ed, what kind of advice or guidance or words of support do you like to offer? 

Kevin: There’s a lot. I think, I think a lot affects me all the time. And depending on the day, how I’m feeling too, right? Most cases I’m really joyful. Like I’m really happy and all that. There is some other times where it’s like, I try to hide my feelings, a sense of like, you know, I don’t feel so great that day, but I try to hide them in a sense. And I think a little bit does affect it to when I give advice, but it’s more so– Again, going back to like giving all the power to the student. I’m just like, “Where are you at? Where do you see yourself? Where do you want to be in the next couple of years? Do you see yourself getting yourself a degree? Do you want to work? Do you want to like–” The first thing I do is definitely ask so many questions. Cause it’s like, you don’t know if you’re answering the right questions. And so always asking many different kinds of questions. “Well, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?” But my number one thing always for first-gen students or any students that come up to me is like, I don’t want them to be in debt. 

Lux: Yeah, for sure. 

Kevin: So it’s like, it’s like, “If you want to come here, what do you– Do you have scholarships? Do you have FAFSA? Like, are you getting everything paid for? Do you have the For Utah [scholarship]?” And so like, if, as long as you have that, cool, I’ll put you on a path to educational success. Cause you don’t have to worry too much about the money part. Whereas if they do have to worry about the money part, I always tell them, you know, “Take a semester off, take a year off, go to work, go work, save some money up.” Cause that’s what I’m doing, right? Luckily I graduated debt free. Scholarships, everything, you know, it really depends on the student on like how you try to go forward for your own stuff. And I always love to share my experience of like, you know, I did this and I got, I got lucky enough to receive scholarships, the full Pell Grant. Still kind of mad that the For Utah came out after I graduated, right, you know? 

Lux: Yeah. 

Jimena: I’m not. She was helpful. Sorry, Kevin. 

[Laughter]

Kevin: I wish I could have been around when it was around, right? But no, yeah. And essentially, you know, working hard. So it’s like, I did work hard for my degree. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Kevin: I did full-time work. I did part-time jobs. I did, you know, save that money. And the one thing like, when it comes to summer semesters, I think they’re good and bad. They’re good because it’s like, you can catch up to your four-year graduation length, right? They’re good because they, no matter what, I think– I believe no matter what institution or anything, summer semesters will always cost in-state instead of out-state [tuition]. So students who are undocumented or, you know, international students or anybody, right, that wants to attend the U or like anywhere else here, right? And they’re not even a resident yet, that even in the summer, they’ll still get charged in-state tuition. 

Lux: Yeah, that’s a huge, huge difference between out-of-state and in-state. It’s incredible. 

Kevin: So it’s like, even to talking like out-of-state students, I’m just like, I get them– I tell them that I’m like, like you can start off a semester, take like one class at least so you don’t have to keep paying that huge amount. And then after you get your first year residency, then start becoming full-time. Take full-time in the summer because it’s in-state classes. Like it’s a lot of things that a lot of students didn’t know. Even I didn’t know, right, as a student. And so always trying to give, share my experiences with education, with work, what that looks like, but everybody’s different. And it just– There’s so many details because I can just think of so much, even down to family situations. I was lucky enough to have both my parents around, right? So, one of my best friends–his parents are divorced. And so it’s like, I always took that into recognition. And so it’s like, I’m really lucky. Whereas he’s also like supporting his mom and like, you know, trying to pay for rent and stuff. And so it’s like, it’s very small things over there. And so I always like to put students– I like to hear students’ priorities first and then go along with that. So it’s like, you know what you want to do. You just gotta say it. And so, to me, family is important. Number one, to me. Religion is a thing. I’m not–me, myself, I’m not religious. I used to– My family used to be Catholic, kind of geared away from that. We don’t go to church anymore. At least in myself, I don’t do anything along those lines anymore. Funny thing, my parents ended up becoming Jehovah’s Witnesses so a huge, huge turnaround about that. But– And I understand and I respect people’s religions and beliefs and stuff, right? And it’s just like, it’s everything that does take into account to their own. So it’s like, yeah, I think of my parents, lucky to have both my parents. Some students are lucky enough to have one, and then if they’re not, they’re just fending for themselves, right? And so they have nobody else to lean on. Religion? Some students will believe in God and such and that route, and I’m like, that’s cool. I believe, you know, I respect that. For me, I’m straight up, like I don’t have any sense to religion or anything like that. So it’s like, but I respect what you believe in and all that and so– It’s, yeah, it just really depends on where the student is at and kind of get a sense of their own priorities of what they want to do. It’s like, working with students, sometimes it’s like, I’ll hear a lot, like, “Oh, I don’t want to do this anymore.” I’m just like, “I understand that, but you gotta realize, towards the end, it’s really better for your future at the end.” But again, I don’t be pushy. I’m like, “But if you really don’t see yourself that way, that’s okay. Again, take some time off, take a semester off, take a year off, work, find work, see what that looks like.” 

Lux: And be open to coming back. 

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, school– And I tell this to every student. I’ve told– I’m sure I’ve told Jimena this many times: You have time. 

Jimena: Mmmm. Yes, you have told me so much. I’m like, time, time, time. Like, you’re saying all these things, I’m like, “I’ve had a conversation about this with Kevin. I’m gonna talk to Kevin about this for sure.”

Kevin: Because, yeah, I feel like growing up, starting out school, it’s like, they put you on this deadline to graduate within four years. And it’s not realistic at times. And so, now having been through college, right, I’m realizing, I’m like, “I’m such an idiot. I had much more time to be like, you know– I didn’t have to take a semester, a summer semester class. I could have taken it in fall, like an extra semester, and save so much more money.” And yeah, it’s one thing I like to, as Jimena knows, I like to repeat, repeat. I’m like, “You have time.” 

Lux: I think that is so important, because there is this huge initiative to get students graduated in four years, at maximum five, which– Yeah, that timeline doesn’t work for everybody. I don’t know who came up with it because maybe that worked like 40, 50 years ago. But these days, life gets really complicated. And whatever timeline you’re on is the right timeline. Whatever works for you, right? 

Kevin: Yeah. So it’s like, yeah, I want to let everybody know that they have time. Even to this day, I still get students who are, like, they’re still stressed out because they want to finish in four years. I have to bring them back and be like, “It’s okay if you don’t finish in four years, though.”

Lux: Yeah, it’s not a failure. Not at all. 

Kevin: Yeah. It’s just, it’s more so for your mental health, for your well-being, right? It’s like, that way you don’t always have to overstress and take like, six classes or seven classes. It’s like, “No, you have time. And even then, you’ll still get FAFSA. You’ll still get these scholarships. You’ll still get your college paid for.” But the one thing I always like to repeat is always having time. Yeah. Because, yeah, like again, being in college, it’s like, “Oh, you gotta finish within four years.” And it’s just like, “No, I took an extra semester.” Which was nice to hear, right, from my peer mentors and stuff, hearing them be like, “Oh, it took me five years,” or “It took me six years.” And I’m like, “Then why am I trying to rush myself to do four years?” 

Lux: Yeah. Yeah, it’s one thing to hear the marketing of, you know, “Get your degree in four years” versus the real life experience. So I think that that’s so important to be like, “Four years is one way to do it. Five years is another. Five plus is a whole other.” There’s no wrong way to do it, really. 

Kevin: Oh yeah, and like, one of the other students’ leaders, Xochitl, she’s a non-traditional student, right? And so it’s like, she did go to college at the beginning, but life happens. Come back to it when you’re ready. And she’s now finishing up her degrees, and she’s getting a master’s. 

Jimena: And she is thriving.

Lux: Yeah, and entering a master’s program. So yeah, there’s no one timeline. I think that’s really, really important advice. 

Kevin: And with students who are graduating with a four-year degree, right, I always tell them– it’s like, “What do you think?” “Should I go right after my master’s, or should I take some time off?” And I’m like, you know what I mean? I’m like, “Take time off.” I’m like…you’ve been [in school] since elementary, since middle school, since high school, right? And you went [to college] right after high school. You need a break.You don’t think you need a break, but you need a break.”

Lux: And it’s totally A-okay to take a break.

Kevin: And I understand it. Some students, they like education.They prefer their route to go, like, right after they finish, so I’m like, that makes sense. But to me, I’d rather give the advice of, like, no, take a break. You need a break. Get a break, not only for education’s sake, but take a break in the sense of knowing what life is outside of education, because education is not always there. You could always come back to it, right? It’s just– Get accustomed to the real world, but, like . . . what education looks like, what work looks like, what hanging out with friends looks like, you know? 

Lux: Yeah, after you’ve been, working for . . . years on end at this point. Yeah, I think that’s really great advice.

Kevin: Oh, yeah, and that’s what I’m doing. That’s what I’ve been doing, right? So after I got my four-year degree, I was just like, I knew right away, I’m like, “Nope, I’m taking a break. I need to find a job. Let me get the sense of what it is to find, like, a job, work 9:00 to 5:00, whatever that looks like,” right? And so on, and I don’t regret it. And now I know what the time looks like, the effort looks like into applying for jobs, into putting all my effort into my resume . . . finding letters of recs, personal statements and stuff, and so, yeah. I definitely don’t regret it one bit, and now that I’m lucky enough to be in this position, I feel like I’ve caught up with my finances and stuff to where it’s like, “Okay, I think I can see myself going back to school now,” which I am, getting my master’s in educational leadership and policy, and so I’ll be starting fall, this fall, fall of ‘24. 

Lux: That’s exciting! We’re both like, “Woo!”

Jimena: I know! 

Kevin: So, no, yeah . . . what I feel like is my better advice or my best advice is taking time, because I also live on, like, the saying of, like, tomorrow’s never promised. We don’t know if tomorrow’s happening, right? We could still be here, we might not still be here. Family might still be here, friends, other friends, and I might not be here. And so I always like to reiterate that, too. It’s like, tomorrow’s never promised. We never know what tomorrow is. We know what the past is, right, because it’s already happened and stuff. But living for tomorrow is also not realistic, I don’t think. 

Lux: Well, I think that about wraps this up, unless there’s anything else you want to add. No pressure, one way or the other. 

Kevin: Oh, I’m sure there’s a lot of things that I could add . . .The one thing that I’ll probably add is, like, the one thing I feel like I’m learning a little too late now, at this point, is going outside of Utah. Like, growing up here, being raised here, it’s nice. It’s definitely not a bad place to live. 

Jimena: It’s like a little bubble. 

Kevin: Yeah, it’s a good comfort zone, but . . . once you get your chance to explore, even going to Nevada, right, or Colorado. There’s definitely a lot more than what we think, right, than to stick to one place. And that’s where I feel like I regret–myself, too–where it’s like . . . first-gen, low income? It could be perceived as . . . too afraid to explore. Because, again, we’re afraid to go into debt. We’re afraid that we might not be able to pay enough for it. But I think we gotta take those risks–the risk of, you know, let’s explore, let’s at least put some kind of effort, some kind of money into this to see what this could look like, right? 

Lux: Yeah!

Kevin: I think, if I could add one more thing, I think it’s probably to explore outside of Utah, and, you know, take a little risk because I think it’s okay every now and then to take at least one risk . . . because then who knows, maybe you can find a better life somewhere else other than Utah. And especially, I’ll say especially today, right, with the recent passing of what’s been happening in Utah.

Lux: Yeah, like the DEI bills. 

Kevin: The anti-DEI bills. Yeah. What else? Them being really anti-LGBT. Just so much going wrong in the state of Utah at the moment, which is sad to see, because it’s a place I’ll call home, right? And it’s like, I’m a person of color, and it just isn’t . . . it’s not feeling that way anymore. It’s not feeling like home anymore, for sure. Not only does the university not see us in a bright light anymore, I feel like the state is not seeing us in a bright light anymore, and so it’s like all the more the reason to go out and explore outside of Utah. 

Lux: Yeah, and exploring can be so scary, and a lot of the experiences that you’ve lived through were probably super scary as you were exploring. So yeah, you kind of feel kind of nervous one way or the other. 

Kevin: Oh yeah. That’s very normal.