Interviewer: Lux Darkbloom
Interview Subject: Lyuba Basin 

Lux: So, my name is Lux Darkbloom, and I am here today with…would you mind introducing yourself? 

Lyuba: Sure, yeah. My name is Lyuba Basin, and I’m the Rare Books Librarian here at the Marriott Library. 

Lux: And can you also tell us a little bit about your background, like where you were born, where you grew up, do you have siblings, that sort of thing?

Lyuba: Absolutely. So, I was born in the Soviet Republic of Belarus in 1989, so at the time it was still considered the Soviet Union. And then my family immigrated to the United States when I was about four and a half years old in 1994, so kind of following the fall of the Soviet Union. And we came here to Salt Lake City. I’m an only child. I grew up in Salt Lake and the kind of surrounding suburbs. So, I have kind of an interesting, I think, perspective of being, like, foreign-born, but definitely, like, Utah-raised. Like I’m definitely like a Mountain West gal myself. …So, my first language is Russian, and I still speak it. I’m a heritage speaker. So, I was never raised learning how to read or write, but my family that immigrated here with us, like, you know, it’s still, it’s still part of our kind of cultural background. 

Lux: Absolutely. That is so cool. I had no idea, actually. I’m a big fan of only children here as well. [Laughs] So, since this is through the lens of your first-generation experiences as a student, a lot of these questions are going to be from that perspective. So, starting out, I was wondering if you could talk about what motivated you to pursue higher education. 

Lyuba: Sure, yeah. So, when I was in high school, I was a really good student, but I wasn’t, like, the best kid and I found myself kind of getting into trouble a lot. And my parents really always emphasized the importance of getting a degree and going into higher ed because they saw that like, “Well, you know, we came here for a reason. And the reason is that we wanted to have a better opportunity for you to grow up.” And so, I always considered the sacrifices my family made in coming here and knew that I needed to kind of make a promise to them so that I would, you know, get that degree and take the opportunities that have been offered to me here that they didn’t have. So, it was a rough start, I would say. I kind of struggled initially and, you know, we didn’t have a lot of money. So, I started off at the community college and worked my way through SLCC for about five years before transferring over to the U in 2012. 

Lux: Very cool. And were there any specific role models or mentors who encouraged you or motivated you through your college experience? 

Lyuba: You know, not really. I think other than just my parents kind of making sure that I kind of kept at it despite the challenges I was facing, I don’t really feel like I had a lot of role models or encouragement. And I would even say that in high school, I don’t recall any kind of like orientation or training or discussions about applying to university and higher ed. So, I really went into it, like, blind. And because my parents didn’t have the kind of educational background or even the language skills, the whole like application process, I kind of had to struggle through on my own and didn’t have anybody in my family to really help me through that process, unfortunately, which is why it kind of took so long and why there were so many kind of challenges initially.

Lux: Makes sense. A lot of sense. Do you feel that–how do I want to put this? In your experience with other first-gen students, is this a common kind of experience that you’ve heard?

Lyuba: Yeah, I would say so. I think that kind of education in general is difficult to find support in if your family doesn’t have that background and knowledge. There’s so many kind of steps and logistics and bureaucracy that a lot of people just don’t have the time or patience for. And I mean, I really think it’s, like, the time especially is…it was a real privilege to have to sift through all the paperwork and get all your files together. And in my experience, you know, with other first-gen students, like that’s kind of like the defining factor is like, well, you know…some people, it takes them longer to get to school, to get to higher ed because of all that kind of bureaucracy and because they didn’t really have the help to sort it out themselves. They didn’t have the help so they had to sort it out themselves, I should say. 

Lux: Were there any programming services, things along those lines–resources, I guess–for first-gen students when you started college? 

Lyuba: Not that I can recall. And maybe they were available, but I don’t…I wouldn’t say they were well-advertised by any means because I didn’t pursue those opportunities. And maybe I wasn’t…again, I didn’t have the time to really, like, look for them either because I was working full-time when I was at SLCC. 

Lux: You were working full-time, you said?

Lyuba: Yeah. 

Lux: Oh, wow. Okay. So were you attending school full-time as well?

Lyuba: No, I wasn’t. Because I was working full-time and needing to kind of pay my own bills, I was taking a lot of night classes, so classes in the evenings like after work. And I was only really able to take one or two classes per semester, just depending on my schedule, which has its pros and cons. I think the pros at the time, the community college was so inexpensive so I could afford it without having to take on any student debt. But I had to take, like I said, one to two classes a semester, so it took me twice as long to complete. 

Lux: Mm-hmm. Did you feel like there was any pressure externally on what amount of time you were supposed to complete your degree in, either socially or within your family? 

Lyuba: Definitely not within my family. I think my family could see that with each year I was like more and more dedicated to higher education and to my kind of job opportunities and things like that. So my family didn’t pressure me. They knew I’d figure it out eventually. But I certainly felt like there was some pressure socially to finish the degree, especially when I transferred to the University of Utah and found myself like one of the older students. And I was considered to be, what’s the word that they use?

Lux: Oh, non-traditional, I think. 

Lyuba: Non-traditional. I was considered to be a non-traditional student. And because at that point, I was in my 20s already. And a lot of the students, they start right out of high school at age 18, if not older sometimes. So by the time I transferred to the U, I felt a little bit more pressure. But at the same time, I knew that because of my age and because I had a little bit more independence, I’d be able to pursue different opportunities that may not have been available to me if I was younger, if that makes sense. 

Lux: Absolutely. Yeah. And the term “non-traditional” is kind of a loaded, terrible term, I think. And I don’t know. What are your thoughts on it? It does seem like it colored your experience a little bit, being given this label. 

Lyuba: Yeah, it was interesting. I kind of laugh at it now because it’s like, well, what is a traditional student? 

Lux: Yeah, exactly. 

Lyuba: But I do feel very fortunate because of my socioeconomic background and being kind of labeled a non-traditional student, I was able to apply for Pell Grants, rather than just regular student loans. And that really, really helped me financially all through my undergrad because I got out of it with about $5,000 in student loans, and that’s it. And I think that’s like a huge feat. So if that’s what non-traditional means, I’ll take it. 

Lux: Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. It’s wild that there are so many barriers already, and then adding layers of complexity to those barriers, even just with naming conventions for these different categories we have for students. So, changing lanes a little bit, I know this is going back a little ways, but do you remember what it was like your first semester on a college campus? And maybe you could talk about any feelings you had or experiences that stood out. 

Lyuba: Yeah. So I think the community college didn’t feel as dramatic of a change because I had taken some college classes through my high school. It was called the Jordan Applied Technology Center. And so I was kind of familiar with the community college aspect of things, but I do remember vividly the first day at the University of Utah campus and feeling so overwhelmed by the size and grandeur of the campus and thinking about, “Where are my classes going to be? And am I going to be in one of those huge auditoriums?” Because I only ever had this picture of the university through movies, right? Through film. And I’m a millennial, so it’s like the early kind of 2000s, late 90s kinds of college movies. So I was expecting, I think, that experience. But that’s not how it is at all. I think everybody here is fairly kind of like, you know, they keep their head down, they go to class, they do their homework. It’s not as crazy as the movies make it out to be. 

Lux: Which is, you know, it could be a benefit. 

Lyuba: Yeah! [Laughs]

Lux: [Laughs] I’m kidding! As far as navigating the physical campus and also navigating the presence of services, resources, what was that like for you? You mentioned you didn’t have a lot of support on campus, so how did you go about learning those things? 

Lyuba: I knew from the very beginning that I wanted to be an English major. So like from Salt Lake Community College, like that was kind of my trajectory and that was what I wanted to go do. So I did end up meeting with the student advisor in the English department. And I’ll never be able to remember her name. She retired a long time ago, but she kind of said to me like, “It’s really important for you to look for different types of volunteer opportunities,” which was such a new idea for me. It’s like, what do you mean volunteer my time for free? Like I have bills to pay. And it was one of those things too where I was like, oh, I recognize that, you know, people who have the time and money to volunteer, you know, pursue those activities and that’s how they network and that’s how they experience these things. But so I did try to seek that out. And I actually ended up at the Bennion Center and kind of thinking about what I could do to better my chances at a career. And I thought volunteering was actually kind of like the way to go. And I did a couple alternative break programs through the Bennion Center and also through them learned about the English Skills Learning Center, which is an ESL teaching community like here in Salt Lake Valley. And so I was able to do some volunteer work. And I think that really helped me better understand the community, what I was doing with a career in English, and what I wanted to pursue initially. So I would really like to highly shout out the Bennion Center for the work that they do. 

Lux: I was actually gonna just ask you about that. Could you talk a little bit about your…you did a couple of alternative spring breaks?

Lyuba: Yeah. So I did one in San Francisco that was kind of focused on LGBTQ youth and kind of substance abuse issues. And then I did one in Portland that was focused on environmentalism and sustainability. And it was one of those things where, like, I knew that I wanted to kind of travel and explore, and I saw an opportunity to do that, but also to do something with my time that was beneficial, not just to me, but to other people. And it was a kind of a low-cost way of being able to go to places like San Francisco and Portland, which have always been on my bucket list, but not just go there on vacation, but go there and do something with it. 

Lux: Did those experiences impact your choice of major at all? Like you said that you had already decided to be an English major when you entered into college, but did those…I guess not impacting your major choice, but maybe your career path even?

Lyuba: Yeah. So initially, you know, being an English major, it’s like, I love reading and I love writing. And I was like, that’s what I just want to be taught how to do. But I think that those volunteer opportunities really kind of made me consider how my career affects the rest of the community. And so I actually started…I double-majored and added applied linguistics to my kind of academic career so that I could get a TESOL certificate and teach ESL. And this goes back to like my own family. And I remember them going to ESL classes in order to get their citizenship. And I was, it was kind of just trying to go full circle and thinking about how I can make that promise to my parents to not only get an education, but then to help other people like us in the community.

Lux: And do you feel that being first-generation had an impact on those decisions, too?

Lyuba: Yeah. I mean, I think so. It was always in the back of my mind thinking about like…like you said, there are so many kinds of hoops that you have to jump through and thinking about how, you know, would it have been different for me if I had somebody kind of guiding me earlier on, you know? And so I wanted to kind of think about how I could guide others as well. 

Lux: So there wasn’t any kind of bridge program from a high school or anything like that at the time to help you with that transition?

Lyuba: Well, there was, like I said, the Jordan Applied Technology Center, which offered college credit, like you could get college credit while taking these classes. And the classes were in business management. But if I’m totally honest, I went through that program because I didn’t want to be at school, and it was like an offsite thing. And I was like, “Cool, I’ll get college credit.” But I don’t think that I really understood what that meant at the time…I don’t know that it was really discussed like the importance of it. But again, it was like a more affordable alternative to getting college credits, though. I don’t know that I would have necessarily kept pursuing…like I didn’t pursue business management, you know?

Lux: Was it just a limited kind of set of options for courses you could take there? 

Lyuba: Yeah, yeah. 

Lux: So not really focusing on the humanities, more social kind of offerings.

Lyuba: Yeah, like a technical school, you know? 

Lux: Yeah, so we talked a little bit about you working full time throughout–Was that your entire college experience, including grad school? 

Lyuba: No. Actually, when I transferred up to the U, I made a very difficult decision of moving back in with my parents. Very difficult decision. [Laughs] Because I knew that I really wanted to dedicate myself to my degree and to education and academics. And I was…I mean, my parents were like, “Happily, we’ll take you back.” [Laughs] But so while I was finishing my undergrad at the University of Utah, I lived with them and then was able to work part-time. And I actually, that’s where I got the job here at the library as a part-time student employee, which allowed me to kind of, like, essentially spend my entire day on campus between classes and work. And then I had another part-time job working at a restaurant as well. 

Lux: Oh, two part time jobs? So, really…full time. 

Lyuba: [Laughs] I know that looking back, I’m like, I can’t believe I did that. Like, I can barely…And going to bed at like 9:30. But I was younger and ambitious then.

Lux: Well, when we’re younger, we’ve got a lot of energy.

Lyuba: For sure. 

Lux: But I mean…you’ve got a lot of intrinsic motivation, it sounds like. So I’m sure that that gave you a lot of push in that direction. 

Lyuba: Yeah, absolutely. 

Lux: As you mentioned earlier, your folks weren’t able to provide you with a lot of guidance around how to do college essentially. Do you feel like that impacted your academic success? Or do you feel like that was not a barrier at all?

Lyuba: I would say, looking back now, it was almost a silver lining because I think that I had to work harder to be a student and to understand the landscape of academia. Because I didn’t have somebody like holding my hand through it. And so if I’m totally honest, I think I got a lot more out of like my undergraduate, especially my undergraduate career, because I was committed, you know, like I’m paying the bills, like I’m paying the tuition, I have to, you know, be accountable to myself and go to these classes because I don’t have a way…like I don’t have anything to fall back onto. And I don’t have anybody to help me with that. So I think that that made me a little bit more responsible and made me more focused in my classes because it’s like, “This is what I’m here to do,” if that makes sense. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of the first-gen students that I’ve talked to kind of struggle with, like, almost like a hyper independence, where maybe they feel like they have to go it alone. Did you have an experience like that? Or what were your thoughts about even just feeling comfortable on a campus as a first-gen student? 

Lyuba: Um, it’s hard to say, because I think that–not just being first-gen, but like being an immigrant, I feel like you, yeah, you have to be independent and kind of like, take care of yourself in that way. So…I don’t know, sorry, could you repeat the question? I’m thinking about it too deeply. 

Lux: Oh, no worries. So like you mentioned, it’s having this layered identity. So it’s kind of difficult to pin down the source of these different characteristics. But I have noticed a lot of students have this quality of hyper-independence, where there’s this sense that asking for help is…it’s really intimidating. And who do you even ask for help from? So that sort of thing, I guess.

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah…and now that I’m, like, thinking about it, I always kind of thought it was maybe just like a personality trait. Like, you know, I have to take care of myself, and I don’t really need anybody to, like, do it for me. But maybe subconsciously, there is that kind of anxiety about asking for help. So I’m not sure. I’m not sure. That’s something I’ll have to think a little bit more about. But I don’t think, like I said, I think it made me kind of work a little bit harder. And once I did transfer up to the U, I really, really wanted to seek out opportunities, because I knew I already had kind of, like, not the upper hand, you know, so I had to be a little bit more competitive than I maybe would have been if I started at 18 or 19. 

Lux: What kind of reception do you feel like faculty had toward you?…We don’t talk about first generation status, though, this is an experience that comes with a lot of bureaucracy and barriers and challenges that are unique to first-generation students. So, yeah, I think I get what you’re saying there. 

Lyuba: Yeah

Lux: It’s kind of difficult to disentangle what leads you to these perspectives, really, on who is going to help me? Do I need to do it myself? That kind of thing. 

Lyuba: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Lux: Do you feel that that had any kind of impact on your emotional well-being? Whether that was here at the U or at community college or grad school later? 

Lyuba: Um, I don’t know if it did, if it negatively impacted me in that way. But I do know that there were a lot of times where I was just like, “I don’t want to have to do more paperwork, or I don’t want to have to like go like jump through another hoop.” And I think, you know, there are definitely times where it was just stressful, and I just wanted to give up. But like I said, I think in the long run, the silver lining is I worked really hard. And I think I can say that I’m really proud of the things that I accomplished. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. As a faculty member now, do you…how do you think about our current class of now-incoming first generation students? Like, do you feel like the services that the library provides are accessible, things along those lines? 

Lyuba: It’s hard to say because, um, because I think it’s like, it’s a matter of marketing, but also the student being willing to kind of, you know, take that leap, and take that jump, and take that opportunity. So I’m only 36, but I feel so far removed from the kind of current generation cohort of students because the way that our lives have evolved is so different with technology and stuff. And I wonder if those resources are much more available because they are available online and almost everyone has a phone that they use or, you know…I think the access to the technology is so different from what I had when I was growing up. 

Lux: Yeah, for sure. 

Lyuba: And so, so it’s hard to say because I don’t know how the resources are being provided to them. Because I felt like, when I was coming out of high school, professors weren’t using email. Like the website was not even a thing that we would even consider or cared about. Like I wouldn’t have looked into it, you know. It’s such a different type of conversation where all the resources are available online and maybe that’s easier to navigate for the students. 

Lux: Did you feel a sense of belonging on campus? And that can be any campus that you attended. 

Lyuba: I think, I think I did. And I think I’m really lucky to have been a part of the humanities because I think that the conversations are deeper. We get to know each other a lot better. I think the classes when I was, especially in English, I was taking a lot of creative writing classes, but also like literary analysis where we’re able to kind of lead into some deep discussions about life and society and culture. And I think that creates a really great community of people because it’s like you’re kind of required to talk about those things in class and that leads you to developing friendships you might not have expected. And so I think with people opening up in those discussions, um, I did feel like I belonged and, and I, and I realized that like, okay, maybe I’m, I’m first-gen and I feel different in that way, but then somebody else has a life experience and maybe their parents did go to college, but something else is kind of inhibiting their success in a similar way. And so I feel really lucky that I was able to, like, kind of participate in those discussions. 

Lux: So this is a really different direction of questions, but, as an immigrant, especially, I’m wondering kind of what your thoughts are about whether the dominant culture in Utah impacted your college experience, especially as far as the demographics, where we live in a historically and predominantly white place, as well as, I mean, even more so on campus, I want to say that around, um, 90% of our faculty identify themselves as white only, and that many faculty are only single language speakers. And just like the culture of the state, that sort of thing. 

Lyuba: Yeah, that’s a really great question because I think that, you know, like I was mentioning about the conversations maybe not being had when I was in high school and, like, what the expectation was of people in high school. I grew up…when I was in high school, I grew up kind of in the suburbs that was predominantly, like, LDS. And I think that the expectation for men to go on missions after high school and then women to kind of wait for them. I think I…this is completely a theory, so, you know, well, you know, take this with a grain of salt, but I think that that kind of expectation is what influenced the teachers and the instructors at the high school to maybe not have discussions with us about, you know, what to do after graduation then maybe in a different part of the Salt Lake Valley, if that makes sense…And so I think that kind of, like, impacted me because I always felt like it was like counter culture, right? So it’s like, I’m not from here. I’m not of the faith. I speak a different language. Soviet culture is radically different than the culture in Utah that I grew up in. And so I felt like I was always kind of the counter culture and maybe that kind of pushed me to push back against it like more than I would have normally. 

Lux: Like in what sense do you think? 

Lyuba: Like, like in the sense that like, I don’t want to get married young. Like I do want to have a career, like I am going to go to college. So the kind of expect like the gendered expectations that were being presented, I wanted to push back against even more because I was of the kind of, uh, a different cultural background. 

Lux: Yeah. Like a real sense of, um, being othered. 

Lyuba: Yeah. And I’m like, I’m my father’s daughter. I’m such a rebel. And when people tell me what to do, I just am like, no, I’m going to do the opposite. 

Lux: I think it’s working really well for you though. [Laughs]

Lyuba: So far, so far, so good. There were some bumps in the road, but we made it through. 

Lux: So looking back at your experiences and kind of lessons learned stuff like that. If you had any guidance or advice for first-gen students who are currently in college or for students who are just considering it at the moment and maybe having some hesitation because of first-gen status being, um, a little trickier to navigate on a campus our size. 

Lyuba: I guess my guidance would be like, as this sounds so cliche, but, like, follow your heart. And if you’re passionate about something that will push you forward and give you momentum, like regardless of the setbacks, you know what I mean? And, um, there are so many opportunities, and it’s tricky because you do have to seek them out. But I, I think in the end, it’s worth it. And you can find a community of people who support you in a way that you might not have felt supported previously. And you can find people who have similar experiences as you. And what, I mean, that’s one of the other things I would mention is that I did have friends who were also first-gen, and it’s like, we got together all the time and talked about like, “Hey, you know, we have to fill out this application. Do you want to do it together?” And that, like that, that exists and it’s there and it just takes some patience and time. But I think that they’ll, you know…I think people will find it and will be grateful for it in the long run. Despite like the fact that it took me seven years or eight years to get a bachelor’s degree, I don’t think I would change that or anything because I really grew into myself during those eight years. And had I just been like, you know, done with university in four that’s expected of students, which I think is really absurd. 

Lux: Agreed, agreed.

Lyuba: If I did it quickly, I wouldn’t have been able to kind of develop into the person that I am. I mean, like I would have been too young to really know and understand what I want out of life and what I want to pursue and how to pursue it. Like thinking about graduating at the age of like 21 or 22 and then being expected to go into the workforce, it’s like, that’s terrifying. And so I think that, you know, we talked about like the kind of “non-traditional” like moniker, like it’s so silly, but I think that that’s in my opinion, kind of like the way to go, the way to do it, because you, you really get to learn a lot about yourself if you take the time to do it, right? You’re not rushed into it. So I think I really do think it’s like a silver lining, like looking back, and despite the kind of struggles and setbacks, I think it’s made me like a better person and I’m like a much more understanding person as well. 

Lux: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense…You mentioned that you worked pretty steadily throughout your entire college experience. And with, you know, family expectations, social expectations, work, life, how did you balance all of that? 

Lyuba: Oh, I wish I knew. That’s what I need now. I wish I knew. I think I just had a vision of what I wanted and I kept telling myself that everything else is temporary, you know, like this job, this part-time job at the restaurant. I’m like, this is temporary. And even when I was barely getting any sleep cause I was, you know, going to school, working part-time, doing this, doing that, and the other, I still had a social life too, which is the crazy part. I just kept saying like, this is temporary. Like if you can work through this, you know…I’m just kind of taking baby steps, like one semester at a time. I just knew that I could handle anything for at least four months. And that’s kind of how I broke down my life. It’s just like this next four months, this next four months. 

Lux: Yeah. It’s measuring out those timeframes and, and really recognizing, okay, this is my threshold. 

Lyuba: Yeah. Compartmentalizing. 

Lux: Yeah. And that’s definitely not easy to do as an adult, even less so when you’re, you know, in your teens or early twenties, like a young adult. Did you feel like you had any family pressure to succeed in college?

Lyuba: Yeah. I don’t think so. I’m still the only one in my family that’s gone to college. Even like my, my cousins, kids who are, you know, much younger than me, haven’t finished school. And so I just don’t think that it, for us, culturally…it wasn’t that it wasn’t important. It’s just that it wasn’t expected, I guess, of us. And so, but I, like I was saying before, it’s like, I knew my parents came to America to give me an opportunity and I didn’t want that to be in vain, you know? And so I don’t know if it was expected. I don’t think I was pressured. It was more just like an emotional allegiance to my family than anything else. 

Lux: That is a really great, accurate way to describe it. Because that pressure is real. Even, I mean, you can, you can sense it even if it’s like a self-imposed pressure. 

Lyuba: Exactly. Yeah. It just…it was a hundred percent a self-imposed pressure. Like I knew my parents would never force me to do anything that I didn’t want to do cause they know that they wouldn’t be able to. So it was never, it never came from them, but I wanted to make them proud and I wanted for them to know that they didn’t come here in vain, I guess. 

Lux: Yeah. That is a hefty load of pressure. I’m also a child of an immigrant and, yeah, you really feel that, that sense of, “Oh, my parent has sacrificed so much. And I kind of owe it to them to be as successful as I can.”

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean that continues to motivate me and drive me. And I’m not in school anymore, but I think that, even in the real world, the adult world, I think about my parents all the time, and I just want to make sure that when the moment comes and our roles are switched, that I can be there for them.

Lux: Yeah. Um, a little earlier you were talking about how it took you a little while, but you found your people and that finding community at college is a really great resource for support. How do you go about finding community?

Lyuba: I mean, I am constantly shocked about how many different groups are on campus. And it’s like, there’s such a niche for, for everything, like thinking, I mean, just like the bulletin board that’s on the second floor [of the library], right? I still constantly walk by it just because I’m like, what else is going on that I could know about? Even though I know it’s more directed towards students, there’s so many activities on campus and off campus with different groups. And it’s like, students do love to congregate together and find kind of like their space. And yeah, when I was a student here, I just kept kind of like looking at bulletin boards and looking at flyers and kind of joining in on the activities that sounded interesting to me, like, cause I was an English major, it was like poetry readings, right? And then, and then just showing up and then seeing who’s there. And you know, I think I’m lucky that I’m like an extroverted introvert in which, like in public spaces, I can really put myself out there, but mostly I like to just be at home by myself. But I mean…I feel like there really is something for everyone. You just kind of have to keep your eye out, you know. And like I said, with technology now, it’s like, maybe there’s like a social media channel or an account that you can follow, but it seems like there’s a lot of opportunities for students to get together that are outside the classroom. 

Lux: Yeah, that are more focused on interests rather than academics. 

Lyuba: Exactly. And sometimes they overlap in a line and that’s really cool and great. But sometimes it’s just like, there’s a knitting group, you know, and they meet once, once a month. And I know that like when I was pursuing my graduate degree in world languages and literature, they had different cultural groups that were like, “Oh, are you interested in Japanese culture? Like we meet here. And are you interested in Latin American culture? We meet here.” And so I was like, wow, this is so cool. There’s so many different types of people doing so many different types of things, sharing food, sharing experiences. And yeah, it’s endless. 

Lux: Yeah. I think that’s a really beautiful way to put it, too…I’m noticing it takes a lot of vulnerability to be able to do that and bravery and genuine curiosity about the people around you and the community that you’re going to school in. But yeah, I think that’s just really impressive. It’s very tricky to do. And I’m with you. I’m an extroverted introvert in many ways. Challenging to say the least. 

Lyuba: And I, I will say that I think that the way, especially in the kind of current era, that the way that the university markets itself is like for jobs only for you to go out there and get a job after graduating is not like the university experience that I had and I really relish. It was all about finding people and interest in becoming myself and learning who I was and what I was into because once you figure that out, then it’s like, you can have a career because you know who you are and what you want. And I worry about that, like I worry if students are just coming here to get a degree and then to find a job, they’re not going to look for those experiences and that makes me sad.

Lux: Yeah. And there’s, I mean, there’s a new directive where we’re focusing on really encouraging students to nail down a major right now and not giving time to explore in important ways, you know, giving students an opportunity even to change majors and talk to different advisors in various colleges, that sort of thing. Do you feel that the political climate when you were in college had an impact on your experience versus the current political climate and how it impacts our student population right now?

Lyuba: I don’t think at the time that I was really kind of driven politically, although I always claimed to be an anarchist, so I was just anti-everything. So I think it was different because I think that like, it wasn’t at the forefront of the conversations I was having with friends and family or in the classroom. Like it’s always there. It was always there. It’s never not, but it wasn’t the biggest concern. And so I think it is quite different now. I think it’s much more part of our day-to-day lives than it ever used to be. But I think for better or for worse, I’m glad that people are politically engaged. But then for worse, because of kind of where we’re going. So that’s, you know, that just adds again to the struggle of the student experience, because it’s like one more thing that they have to think about and worry about.

Lux: Yeah, agreed. Agreed. And in a way, you know, at least a few decades ago, I feel like folks looked at it–especially white folks–look at it as a context rather than a thing that is so impactful in our daily lives, like we have the privilege of opting out of the news if you’re so inclined, you know? Do you feel that faculty have a role in helping students achieve that sense of belonging on campus, especially in a political climate like the one we have now? 

Lyuba: You know, I do, because I think about, you know, where do you spend the majority of your day? And if you’re a student and if you’re a full-time student, you’re going to be on campus, right? And so it’s like…this is kind of like the most important thing. And so you want the people around you to be there for you in that way, right? Like maybe even more so than your parents, because you probably see them less. Does that make sense? It’s like you’re here all day long. Like this becomes kind of like a second home. And so, you know, I guess in that regard, whoever you’re dealing with on a day-to-day basis, kind of become your second family that includes faculty, but also your classmates. So I think that they do have a role and a responsibility, but I also think the most important thing is to say, “Hey, I’m here if you need me.” Because I think otherwise the student may feel anxious about, you know, another form of pressure coming from another authority figure. 

Lux: Yeah. That makes sense. Absolutely. Did you have any faculty who you really connected with as you were going through college? 

Lyuba: Oh yeah, absolutely. There’s an English professor. I love shouting him out. Craig Dworkin. He really changed my perspective of what it means to study and research and think about things. And it was in his class, the first time I actually came up to Special Collections, and we talked about this idea and this concept of a book. And I don’t think I would have the job that I have today if it wasn’t for Craig Dworkin. And he wrote me letters of recommendation and was on my committee when I was in grad school. So he’s really been such an immense support academically. And thinking about going into academia, I don’t have to be a very stuffy person, or I don’t have to hide who I am because he is so true to himself and always has been. And I really looked up to that. 

Lux: Yeah. I think that it’s pretty noteworthy when folks can be their authentic selves. 

Lyuba: Yeah. You can tell, you can tell when they are too. 

Lux: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, I feel like we’re kind of wrapping up unless there’s anything that you would like to talk about that we haven’t gotten anywhere close to, like anything off the top of your head. 

Lyuba: I’m not sure. I’m trying to think about my other experiences that I had that were really kind of notable for me. And I think other than the Bennion Center is that, um, I pursued a couple of study abroad opportunities. And I think that, again, also really changed my perspective of myself and the world that I live in. I went to study abroad in the Dominican Republic and, I did a week in, in Havana in Cuba…That put so much into perspective for me about where I came from, what I went through versus what the rest of the world looks like, you know? If there’s a student listening out there or if anything comes out of this, I would just say pursue the opportunities where you see them because it could really change your life. 

Lux: I think that’s really great advice. And of course, travel is such a huge way to explore your interests and learn about being human, essentially, you know? I did have one last question that just came to mind. I haven’t talked with a lot of grad students who are first-gen and I’m very curious about what your experience was like. 

Lyuba: I mean, I think similar to undergrad, although I felt especially some of the age gaps, maybe we’re not as big, you know, like I felt maybe more amongst peers…graduate school felt so different. And I think that because I was, at that point, in my mid to late twenties–I think I graduated in 2000–I was like late twenties. I was really sure of myself, and I kind of developed who I am, and so I had a lot more confidence going into the graduate program, where I don’t feel like those issues of being first-gen really came up other than the kind of like, you know, the kind of financial discussions. Because I think that a general generational wealth, the older I get, I really see having a huge influence and impact on people’s lives, on students’ lives in particular. And I didn’t maybe get to pursue the grad schools that I maybe would have wanted to go to because I couldn’t afford to go to Stanford or Berkeley. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. I think that your educational experience, it’s what you make it to be and not necessarily where you go to school…Cause I think going into grad school, a lot of people did say to me, “If you go to the same graduate program as your undergrad, that looks bad on your resume or your CV.” And I said, “Well, this is all I got. So I’m just going to go with it and make it my own.” But I think that’s one of those things–the financial decisions that maybe first-gen students have to make that others don’t.

Lux: Did you have to deal with FAFSA and that sort of stuff? 

Lyuba: I got really lucky that I got a scholarship for graduate school. And so I was able to have my school paid for, and I was getting a stipend to be a TA. So I am like, I am so lucky that I don’t have any student loans because it is such a huge kind of financial barrier going into adulthood. And like I said, it’s like, it’s because I went to SLCC for five years and was taking one to two classes a semester that I was able to pay that without any student loans, and being a non-traditional student, and being able to get Pell grants that I didn’t have to pay back, and then going into grad school and having that scholarship opportunity. So I’m very lucky. Like, I don’t know how it happened, but oh my God. 

Lux: The way that students are experiencing all of the hard blows of legislation where Pell grants are not going to be funded, certainly not the way they used to be. But there’s a real threat of even less financial support. So I do wonder how folks who don’t have that generational wealth that you mentioned are coping with that sort of stuff. And as a faculty, it’s really disconcerting.

 

Lyuba: Yeah, 100%. I mean, talk about just another barrier that you have to go through and think about. And, you know, I think that going into [college], it’s like, you really have to wonder, is this right for me? Like, is higher education right for me? And that’s a difficult decision to make when you’re young, and you don’t know what you want to do yet, you know? And God, I think about that constantly, all the time because, like I said, like I took my time, but if somebody wants to be able to like get out there and get their degree and get a career, it’s so devastating to me that like, that’s just another barrier, the financial barrier. And then it gets more expensive because it’s like at SLCC, when I was going to school, I mean, classes were like $300 per class. We can’t even fathom what that means and like what that looks like. 

Lux: Yeah, I completely agree. I think that a lot of faculty here have…I don’t know, they’ve gotten really disconnected from the student experience, especially the threat of not being able to afford school as a real motivator for taking on all of these responsibilities and that sort of thing. But it’s a thing that some faculty I’ve talked with have mentioned really coloring their experience and the way that they plan to engage with students, set up initiatives for students who do have barriers, that sort of thing. 

Lyuba: Yeah. And, you know, like we were talking about, you know, working part-time or full-time while you’re in school and considering how that might like impact a student’s work or like what kind of assignments you might be able to give out to consider the people who have these lives outside of campus where they’re not just fully devoted to like their homework, you know? 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. [In] your role within the library, do you feel like you have some agency to support students as a faculty member now?

Lyuba: In some ways, I do. Like I’m not an instructor of record, but I get between 35 to 45 classes per semester of students coming in, you know, to do rare book sessions. And I really try to emphasize the point that everybody’s welcome. I’m trying to emphasize the point that Special Collections is not for an elite group of researchers, that anybody can come access this information and material, and that it’s fun and it’s creative and that there’s something that you could learn here. So I try to be a little bit more relaxed in those sessions and, you know, encourage students to say if they’re interested in this and want to pursue it, reach out to me. I’ve met with a lot of students over the years who have sent me emails and have been like, “I’m interested in going to library school, or I’m interested in what you do for work. Can you tell me a little bit about your background?” And when I explain to them where I came from and my quote unquote non-traditional background, I think that that really encourages them because they see something, they’re passionate about something, and I just say let that passion drive you and it’s possible. So I think those opportunities, you know, they’re not super common, but I get at least like one student a semester that’ll, that’ll reach out. And I’ve had a couple students, you know, go on to pursue graduate school in, in library science or in a kind of related field. And I don’t know, it just makes me so happy because they’re willing to reach out. And I think that the best thing I can do is just provide like, to make them feel like they can comfortably reach out to me and that we can have a conversation over coffee or whatever. It doesn’t have to be super professional, you know, and they could just ask me questions and we can talk about life. So I just try to come off in that way in those experiences. 

Lux: Yeah. Like approachable. 

Lyuba: Yeah. Yeah. 

Lux: Do you feel like your own student experience has informed the way that you interact as a faculty member with students? 

Lyuba: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Definitely. Because I really respect students that are like, you know, they’re working hard, and they’re doing it despite all the struggles. And I want to be there to support them through that. And I’ve had, you know, a couple students also tell me that they’re SLCC transfers, and, you know, and I can tell like, they’re almost embarrassed about it cause I was embarrassed about it, too, to kind of like let that be known. And I’m like, “Hell yeah. I’m from SLCC, too. High five!” And you know, we can have that bonding experience because it’s like, it doesn’t matter how you get here. You got here, and you should be proud of yourself.

Lux: Yeah. Hell yeah. And it sounds like it’s really helped you to be your authentic self and share those things. Going to SLCC is great! Feel a sense of accomplishment here, man! It’s nothing to turn up your nose at. That’s college, and you did it!

Lyuba: Yeah, for sure. And I think we all suffer from Imposter Syndrome every now and then, but I think it’s important in my interactions with students for me to be myself so that they can feel comfortable, continuing to be themselves.

Lux: Have you had a lot of opportunities to, I guess, help lead students toward different services or resources, even outside of the library, like resource centers, that sort of thing?

Lyuba: I haven’t, but…some of the conversations I’ve had with students about pursuing higher ed or like what to do when you get here. I’ve definitely directed people towards the Bennion Center and talked about the importance of study abroad and those kinds of conversations. Because I think that with students, you know, coming here maybe they might ask me what did my career trajectory look like? And I always make sure to kind of emphasize all of the opportunities I sought out on campus just to become a well-rounded person. It’s not necessarily that they were related to me and my librarianship, but they certainly influenced the way that I see the world. And so, so yeah, I guess I do. I mean, I definitely talk about those resources and my experiences that I had, like the positive experiences that I had. And so hopefully they pick up on that, you know?

Lux: Yeah, I think that that’s so helpful. I mean, when I was a student, I certainly felt like, “Okay, this person who is a professor who I like, or this librarian who I like is vouching for this service or this experience or resource. I think I will check it out.

Lyuba: Yeah, yeah. And one other resource that I think is not discussed maybe so much on campus is that, like, I did a Fulbright after my undergrad and I became a Fulbright alumni ambassador. So people contacted me to ask me about the application process and what they should do. And I think, again, it’s one of those things that people think that a Fulbright or any kind of scholarship is this prestigious, elite thing. But the very people that Fulbright is looking for are people like me, like first-gen students who have had struggles and have life experiences that they can then share in a kind of global cultural exchange program. And so there’s a lot of students that are like, “Well, no, they would never pick me for Fulbright.” And it’s like, no, you’re the exact person that they want, you know, not somebody who’s had everything handed to them. And so I vouch for Fulbright as well, too. 

Lux: It sounds like you would make a really incredible mentor to students. 

Lyuba: Aw, thanks! I’m always happy for anybody to reach out to me. I wholeheartedly love education and academics despite everything. And I want to be able to see that passion in the future students that we have. And so if I can help make that spark, I’m always happy to do it. 

Lux: Well, I think that, like we said earlier, faculty being so authentic really give students the freedom to do that, too. It’s a lot less intimidating when you feel like you are connecting with an actual human instead of just this authority figure behind a podium, you know?

Lyuba: For sure. Yeah. 

Lux: And it sounds like, with your classes that you do now, you’re very conversational and kind of changing the perceived power dynamic. 

Lyuba: Yeah. And I think, too, I mean, we live in such a digital world. And so my job to tell a student that these old books are important–that is an undertaking. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Lyuba: And so the thing that I try to do is to talk about the stories that they tell, and the stories that we tell ourselves, and how the human condition over thousands of years has not really changed. We still want to be loved and supported. We still want to be able to have a roof over our head. We have trials and tribulations. There’s jealousy, there’s anger, and grief, and greed. That is the human condition. And that is what appears in these ancient texts and historical texts. The dynamics have certainly changed. The way that the world looks around us is different. But inside, we’re all the same. And I really try to emphasize those stories because I think that’s how students can connect with these book, right? And that makes it a little bit more, like you said, conversational and open-ended and more personal. And I’m not just there to lecture. I want people to walk away from the classroom and feel, you know, regardless of their life experience that they’re represented in the story because it’s like it is simply the story of the human condition and nothing else. 

Lux: Right. Yeah, absolutely. How would you–this is like a different take on the earlier question I asked–but thinking from a library perspective (or a library school perspective, first-gen students in library school), what kind of hopes, guidance, anything that you want to talk about regarding that? 

Lyuba: So I didn’t go to library school, so I don’t know if I’m the best person to answer that. I got my graduate degree in world languages and cultures. But my thesis was focusing on the materiality of the book so it was library-adjacent. But I think that working in the library for the last 11 years, I’ve kind of library schooled through osmosis, I would say.

Lux: I think so. 

Lyuba: But I think considering, like with the university, what does the library do? How does it work? How does it function? And what does it do for people? And I think for any student going into library school in that regard is kind of thinking about those big picture questions, like what is the purpose of this, right? Because it’s not just to store books…or it’s not just to have a computer station. So I think approaching the classes in library school with the big picture–like, you know, what does this do? What is this for?–is, to me, the best way to look at it. 

Lux: And I’m sure there’s an awful lot more conversation about artificial intelligence in libraries than we ever heard back in grad school days. So, yeah.

Lyuba: To that point, it’s like, I think things can be equally data-driven and humanities-driven. I don’t see those two things as separate, you know? And ‘m a nerd for Excel and data visualization, but I also understand that, at the end of the day, we are here to support students, and faculty, and researchers, and the community because we are a public state institution and that’s what we’re here to do. 

Lux: Well, I think this is a great place to wrap it up, if that sounds good to you. 

Lyuba: Yeah, that sounds great. 

Lux: Thank you so much for talking with me. 

Lyuba: Thanks for having me.

Lux: It was really an honor to hear your story.

Lyuba: Thank you. Yeah, I’m surprised that we haven’t chatted more in the past, but hopefully after you’re back from your sabbatical, we’ll be able to spend more time together. 

Lux: Oh, yeah, we’re definitely going to…now that I know you’re an anarchist. [Laughs]

Lyuba: Better edit that part out. Just kidding. [Laughs]

Lux: It’s totally okay. Don’t even worry. 

Lyuba: Being my true self. 

Lux: Well, thanks again.