Interviewer: Lux Darkbloom
Interview Subject: Tony Gomez

Tony: My name is Tony Gomez. So my family, they are currently in Texas, but I have a younger brother named Jesse, and my mom and dad, Olga and Jesus. They are immigrants from Mexico, so kind of leans into the first-gen here, but I try to visit them often. And yeah, super fortunate to be here in Utah, being able to be a student and a staff member. So it’s just been a great experience so far. 

Lux: Which organization do you work with on campus?

Tony: Yeah, so I’ve been fortunate enough to be a career coach at U Career Success, helping our undergraduates with anything from resumes, cover letters, looking for internships, finding jobs, career exploration. If any student has ever thought about, “What am I going to do after college?” So we help you with that, because we’ve all been there before, especially from the first-gen perspective. 

Lux: You said you have a younger brother? 

Tony: Yes. 

Lux: And how much younger is your brother?

Tony: Six-year age gap, so he’s 20, about to turn 21. So currently exploring college. He’s really into graphic design, illustration, visual arts. So I’ve just been trying to guide him on potential steps to take. I love saying, “I’m not going to do anything for you. I’m going to give you the tools and show you, help you do your due diligence and whatever you want to do with that. I’m supportive of it.” I think it’d be great if he came up here to Utah. So it looks like he might take the same route I did, kind of community college down in Texas first, and kind of seeing where that takes him. So no rush, baby steps. 

Lux: Yes, absolutely. What motivated you to pursue higher education initially?

Tony: Yeah, that’s a great question. Even growing up, my parents didn’t go to college, but they always pushed that I should pursue it, because they obviously want better for myself and sacrificed a lot as immigrants coming here. So it was just ingrained in me, go to college, go to college. And I’m not sure for what, but I know that that’s something to aim for, even as young as 10, 11, 12. 

Lux: So you knew that was on your radar pretty early. As a 10-year-old even, you were like, “Yep, gonna go to college?”

Tony:  Yeah, and there’s kind of a difference there because you’d think that, with having that kind of within you, that you’d be a better student. So my grades were never the best, even [with me] knowing that that was a goal. So I would say that the end of high school kind of snuck up on me. 

Lux: It does that to a lot of us, huh?

Tony: Yeah, and you’re just like, “Okay, high school’s over. Oh, now what?” I thought this was going to go on for much, much longer. And then you’re in your senior year, and you’re like, “Whoa, what am I doing?” So I think that was a big wake-up call, where it’s like, “Okay, I need to make some changes. I need to really assess what’s going on here.” But yeah, it’s always like where you’re at, doing a check of certain things and seeing where you want to go and what sounds interesting to you. But I never really applied myself in grade school. So I was just really coasting. So my typical day would look like: I wake up, I’d watch TV or the news or whatever’s on in the mornings, have a bowl of cereal, go to the bus stop, walk, hang out with my friends at the table in the morning, just exchange jokes, coast through class, like gym, math, English, history, all that stuff, go home, eat a snack, watch YouTube, and then do some homework here and there. But that was essentially the experience for a lot of grade school. And then I remember there’s this one class my junior year. I would say most of high school, my GPA was pretty low. And I’ve taken this–not as a weakness, but now as a strength, just because I’ve been fortunate to come so far–that I had a 2.1 GPA in most of high school. And there was this new class being offered, Honors Economics. And it was opt-in. So it doesn’t matter your GPA. You could just fill out a form. And I did that. I’m like, “Okay, I want to challenge myself. I want to see what this is about. This sounds interesting to me.” So obviously, it’s open enrollment. You can just sign up. And then the next semester rolls around. And then I remember the first thing I thought was sitting down at my desk, I was like, “Oh, all those smart kids are here. I’m with all the smart kids.” And so that was just a point of like, I think that really started maybe a habit of putting myself in spaces where I didn’t think I belonged, which is really cool just in hindsight to see a teacher speak with such conviction about a certain subject. 

Lux: Do you feel like you had, I guess, like a role model or like a big supporter who really encouraged you to pursue higher ed? 

Tony: It’s a great question. I would say that it’s those teachers that would really kind of not BS, you know, tell you about what’s really out there, how to critically think and challenge things. I remember I was just talking about my professor, Professor Jokowsky, during where I did my undergrad. He’s like, “You should challenge everything and everyone.” Like, at least don’t take anything at face value. But really kind of do yourself a favor and really ask yourself, like, “Okay, does this make sense to me? Is this landing?” And he would even say, “Interrupt me in class if you think I’m wrong. Like, please, like, challenge me, critique me.”

Lux: I love that.

Tony: And that just goes along with critical thinking, but just a growth mindset to be able to challenge things. I think that’s very important. 

Lux: Yeah, and to feel comfortable challenging even the person behind the podium, right? A high school teacher or at another university? 

Tony: Yeah, this was at my, where I did my undergrad at University of Texas Arlington. 

Lux: Oh, cool. 

Tony: So yeah, that was my, I believe, junior year because I was a transfer student from community college. So yeah, owe a lot of my growth and even interest in economics to him as well. 

Lux: That’s so cool. So you are fully graduated then? 

Tony: Yes. 

Lux: Okay. When did you graduate? 

Tony: So I graduated with my bachelor’s of business administration, did a double major in economics and finance. That was in 2020, so a very unique year to graduate.

Lux: Whoa, that had to be challenging. 

Tony: Yeah, and then as of this spring, this is my first semester doing the master’s of arts in econ here at the U. 

Lux: That’s awesome.Congratulations. 

Tony: Thank you. Yeah, it’s been awesome.

Lux: What was that like, wrapping up your bachelor’s degree during the lockdown?

Tony: Yeah, I mean, it was very tough. It was very isolating. I enjoyed leaning on a lot of friend groups to study, go to restaurants, go eat and catch up on just things in life, have a social connection. Of course…

Lux: Not just a school life, but also a social life, right? 

Tony: Yeah, totally, yeah. 

Lux: Not too unreasonable. 

Tony: Yeah, it feels just like a whole, I mean, era ago, really. 

Lux: Yeah.

Tony: So it was very hard not having that. Pretty lonely, like I would study in the backyard or just on the couch, try to keep in touch where you could. But it just was not the same, like digital communication. There’s some FaceTime, video calls, but it doesn’t beat the real thing, like being in person, hanging out with your friends. And then, yeah, wrapping that up was challenging, but it really felt good to know that you’re done with it. 

Lux: I bet. 

Tony: Pandemic or not, right? It’s time to move on and look at other things. 

Lux: You made it, even through that incredibly challenging period. 

Tony: Yeah. So class of 2020 and 21, even 22, special bunch right there. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. 

Tony: Even like, not even just college, high school, or whatever you’re working on. 

Lux: Yeah, like, I mean, trying to navigate those major transitions from school at a time when all of those systems that are in place are kind of unstable, to say the least. Yeah, well, congratulations. 

Tony: Thank you.

Lux: How do you feel about your new master’s program? 

Tony: I love it. It’s really engaging, talking to a lot of smart people, kind of going back to like, “Oh, I’m with all the smart kids.” Yeah, I think it’s a great program, and I’m excited to see where it takes me. So I mean, I don’t want to rush it, because I could get it done by the end of 2025. Normally, it would be May ‘26. So I have to practice what I preach. Because as a career coach, I tell our amazing undergrads, like, ‘Don’t rush it.Don’t stress, right? It’s good to take it…”

[Talking overlaps]

Lux: It’s such good advice. It’s so hard to do, though, right? 

Tony: It’s so hard to do, because I still struggle with it myself. But I say, “Stop and smell the roses. Try to enjoy college. You’re only in college one time, really. So don’t stress yourself out. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.”

Lux: Yeah, exactly. It is such a…it’s one of those things that we don’t even recognize will happen as we’re leaving high school. Like, “Oh, okay, I am in charge of my schedule now. I get to determine how long I’m going to be on campus, or if I’m doing online classes or something.” And…I think it’s a pretty normal, common experience to be like, “Yeah, I’m going to do so much in my first semester.” 

Tony: Which that’s not a bad mindset. 

Lux: Not at all.

Tony: Like, your mindset’s in the right place. But you don’t want to operate from that level of, “I need to cram in as much as possible.” And you’re just going to stress yourself out. 

Lux: And maybe even get to burnout at that point.

Tony: So it’s all a balance.Comes from a good place. But definitely prioritize self-care, and going on walks, going outside, all that good stuff. 

Lux: So you’re in a master’s program, and you’re also working. Are you working full time? 

Tony: Full time, yeah.

Lux: And you’re doing a master’s. So how do you…that’s got to be challenging. How do you find balance between school stuff, work stuff, and your self-care, and social needs, and things like this?

Tony: It’s definitely tough, but if I can scrape by, I think anyone can do it. I think it’s just up to being very mindful of time management. And to put it bluntly, you’re going to have to sacrifice some things. I wish I could go home and play video games as much as I used to. So I’m lucky if I squeeze in maybe a couple hours on a weekend. But it’ll all pay off, and it’ll buy you some time later on. So it’s really just prioritizing things, and deferring certain activities, or anything that might bring you joy. And just pushing it, asking yourself, “Okay, can I do this later? Sure, I can do this later.” Just doing work, focusing on classes, and doing a good job in my career. It just takes good time management that you’re already developing in undergrad, really. You kind of build on that rhythm, I feel. 

Lux: Yeah, time management is definitely one of those skills that I think a lot of us develop in college, for sure. So going way back to your undergrad, not so far back, but do you remember what your first days at a college campus were like? 

Tony: Yeah, I remember. It was…my first semester was pretty wild, because my day would start at 5 a.m. I didn’t have a car yet, so my dad would drive me and my brother. He would drop me off at college first, and I had a…I think it was like a 6:50 a.m. class. It was like a U.S. government. But just being first-gen, you don’t know about what that’s gonna be like. And so, I mean, I took it so seriously to the point where I got an A. It was one of my first A’s ever in all of my schooling. But it’s…part of it is some imposter syndrome, not gonna lie. You’re like, “Should I really be here? Do I deserve this? And like, how did I get here?” And that’s for community college. I feel like that could be a common experience for a lot of first-gen. 

Lux: Oh, yeah. 

Tony: University or college, it’s all just a foreign experience to you. But what I did know then is, okay, I really have to apply myself and learn from my mistakes in high school, find a group or join an organization that was pretty ingrained. Because I didn’t have a chance to do that in high school, so I kind of wanted to sort of remedy that. I didn’t have a chance to join an org, partly because I would say, you know, I had to make sure my brother got home from school, taking care of him. Part of it was social anxiety, which I really struggled with in high school, undergrad. So even just like something that I’ve been working on in the past two, three years–all those are debilitating on top of not really knowing what to expect in community college or university environment as a first-gen. But I think once this first semester, once you get through that, you’re like, “Okay, I kind of have a feel for this.” And you know, you completed that, you feel good about it, and the next ones are easier, I feel. The classes, maybe not so much, but the experience I found helped me…helped prepare me for the following semesters. 

Lux: It sounds like you’re very intentionally reflective, as you’re going through these different processes, and learning about how to manage your time, how to…umm…it doesn’t sound like academic preparedness was an issue at all. It was just like you’re changing your, like your level of commitment to school changed, it sounds like, from pre-bachelor’s degree–like high school, junior high, into college. It sounds like there was some change there that occurred, like due to a lot of self-reflection. 

Tony: Yeah, I think so. Just been lucky enough to be put in those spaces where, initially, I felt like I didn’t deserve to be there, or belong there, or earned it, but I found that, at any level, there’s gonna be some sort of imposter syndrome wherever you are, and that’s for everybody, I’ve learned. 

Lux: Seriously. 

Tony: And so, I think building up confidence really helped me a lot, and understanding that people are going through the same thing really helped. I was lucky enough to be a part of the Organization of Latin Americans at my community college. It’s one of the first organizations I joined, and yeah, so many great people are just learning from their experiences. So, I wish I had a chance to go to more of those meetings, but just with classes got busy. 

Lux: Yeah, one of the things that I’ve been hearing a lot through these interviews is that finding your place in a community on campus is one of those things that really makes the college experience more livable, really, truly, and kind of resolves a lot of that Imposter Syndrome type set of feelings of like, “Do I belong here?” And you’re like, “Oh yeah, I have all these folks who belong here with me.” But finding an organization or a group seems to be really, really important, especially as a first-gen student. 

Tony: Yeah, definitely. And looking back on it, it’s not something that you just realize. It doesn’t just click, but it’s more of a slow burn that you realize, “Oh, okay, there’s these people here, and they’re really struggling with this.” And I also struggle with…public speaking, for example. That was, I mean…I dreaded that. I never wanted to do it. I’m like, “Just put me in a cubicle the rest of my life and have me work in a cell with numbers,” which I’ll get to later. But yeah, later on I realized that, yeah, this is a common thing that we’re going through. There’s always those classes that I dreaded, whether it was public speaking or something that just sounded overwhelming. I just pushed it to the last semester possible, and that was one of those for my community college, pushing back public speaking. But there’s always something that’s a common struggle that you’re gonna share with students. So just being able to recognize those things. 

Lux: Do you think that being first-gen had an impact on your major or your career path? 

Tony: Oh, 100%. And I didn’t realize this until much later. But I don’t wanna say I bought into the propaganda of it, but I knew that money was a priority. 

Lux: Oh, for sure. 

Tony: And making money was a priority. So I’m like, “Oh, what’s…money? Okay, economics and finance. Let’s keep going with that.” And I mean, I’ve been lucky that it does align with my interests and what I find interesting. In any job interview where they ask me like, “Oh, tell me about yourself.” I usually start with, growing up in the 2008 financial crisis, that really sparked an interest in the economy and why we grew up around scarcity and why money was such a concern. So I’ve probably said that, I don’t know, like 20 times in interviews. So it’s helped me kind of develop my story and my why, which is super helpful for planning long-term. Like, “What really matters to me? What am I here for? Where would I like to see a difference?” I think if maybe I had circumstances where I didn’t have to be as concerned about money, I would have chosen another path, but it’s not one size fits all, right? It’s just environmental and what sounds interesting to you, what can make you maybe some money, and it’s different for everybody. So just the priorities that you find yourself having. But I would say that was the biggest motivator when choosing a major, a career path. It took a lot of steps to get there, even though I knew in my gut, like this is what I wanna study. So when I got to community college, I thought all I had in me or all I was capable of was a two-year certificate. And so I was looking at just, like, a general business [degree], or I was looking at certain trades, or even, like, fashion design. That sounded interesting. But I remember speaking to my advisor…”Can we change my degree plan to two years? I think that’s everything I have. That’s everything I can put out.” And she’s like, “Are you sure? You should give it, like, a week to think about it.” I’m like, “No, I’m pretty confident that that’s it, the two years.” And then so…

Lux: You say as a master’s student. [Laughter]

Tony: Yeah, right. So I said that and walked away feeling even more confused, like, “Was that the right decision? I don’t know if that felt right.” So that would have been maybe, like, my second semester or third semester out of four total. And I remember going back, like, “You know what, I wanna give it a shot. I wanna give a transfer to a four-year university an actual true shot,” and I changed back my degree plan to the transfer four years. You know, wrapping that up, I’m like, “Oh, I only need a few more electives to get my associate of arts degree–to actually have a degree.” 

Lux: Yeah. 

Tony: If I have this, yeah. 

Lux: That’s wild. 

Tony: First degree in my family. And I was like, “Okay, maybe the four-year doesn’t work out, I’ll lean on this.” And so that was really cool just to have that baked in this part of the plan. And once I got close to the end of my final semester there, I was putting out college applications. And this is one of my regrets, but not like a total regret, because I mean, it worked out well and I had a great experience where I went to school, but I only applied to two universities. One was the University of North Texas, and the other was the University of Texas at Arlington…so the University of North Texas was probably, like, an hour from where my parents were. 

Lux: Wow

Tony: Yeah, and UT Arlington was, like, a 20 minute drive, and I…got accepted to both of them luckily. And I just went with whoever gave me the best financial aid package. 

Lux: That’s wise, yeah. 

Tony: Yeah, that was UTA. And even still, I didn’t have to, but I lived on campus, being 20 minutes away from my parents just to be able to get a taste of what I saw, at that time, as, you know, a quote unquote, traditional college experience, living in the dorms. Again, I put myself in spaces I didn’t see myself…like what I thought was a luxury. And I feel like as housing gets more and more expensive, it kind of is. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. 

Tony: But I remember paying…it was like $390 a month. 

Lux: Oh wow, that’s incredible. 

Tony: Yeah, it was a shared room. My roommate was pretty cool. He was studying aerospace engineering. I’m like, “Ooh, okay.” I see he’s doing all these graphics and designs on his computer. He’d just get to the room and watch anime. I’m like, “Okay, that’s a cool roommate.” That’s a roommate experience.

Lux: It’s a good match, yeah. 

Tony: Would stay out of my way. He would go home on the weekend. So I’d have the dorm to myself. I’m like, “Okay, this is college.” 

Lux: [Laughs]

Tony: You know, yeah, it was awesome. But yeah, it’s all those things that are not as foreign to the non-first-gen students. It’s like, they have an idea of what it’s like to live on campus and go to the dorms, go to the dining hall and…you know, all this stuff. [For] a lot of students, [it’s] where their parents went to college. They can just ask like, “Oh, what was this like? What was this like?” So it was just cool to be able to experience that. Never thought I’d have that on-campus experience. 

Lux: Would you recommend that for students? 

Tony: I would go 50-50. I think it’s not all it’s chalked up to be. It’s kind of promoted as this necessary thing.

Lux: Yeah, yeah. 

Tony: But you can find your community off-campus and hang out in spaces elsewhere. I think if it’s something that you could budget for and it works for you, I would say go for it. But what I think is unfair for the students currently is, I mean, housing keeps going up and up and it’s just… it doesn’t make sense to me. So I was lucky enough to only pay under $400 and I don’t know if that’s the case for students now. 

Lux: Unfortunately, no. But yeah, I think you’re totally right. Those costs are perpetually on the rise, and so it can be really, really challenging. 

Tony: I’d say take that money and go travel.

Lux: Yeah, absolutely. 

Tony: I feel like that’d be a better experience.

Lux: I think that’s good advice too. Do you feel like being first-gen had an impact on your ability to pay tuition or like did you pursue financial aid or anything like that? 

Tony: Yeah, I was lucky enough to get some Pell Grants, and for the rest I had to take out loans through FAFSA. But I just saw that as part of the process. What saved me a lot of money was doing the two-year transfer through community college. 

Lux: Oh, I bet, yeah. 

Tony: Saved me like probably, I don’t know, like $20,000 right there. 

Lux: Oh my gosh, that’s incredible, yeah. 

Tony: Yeah, so I think one of the half regrets I have was living on campus because it’s like a catch-22. Like I got benefits out of it, having that experience. But I mean, a lot of my loans went to things that were paying for tuition, right? But also housing was a component of that. If I didn’t live on campus, I would have saved even more money. Probably would have paid off my loans or have that timeline a lot shorter to pay those off. But I know that for first-gen,there’s maybe a strong chance that the resources aren’t there financially. You know, I know it wasn’t for my family. They helped the best they could. It was nice to, you know, live in the same city still. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Tony: And just, hey, if I needed to go do laundry, I would just go to their house. 

Lux: Yeah, you could just go home. 

Tony: It was awesome. Home-cooked meal. 

Lux: 20 minutes away. 

Tony: 20 minutes away, so it was cool. But yeah, FAFSA and financial aid is a huge component for first-gen.

Lux: Yeah. 

Tony: Yeah, student loans are not getting any better. That’s another problem that I’m passionate about. But I think that, yeah, it’s just a reality for a lot of us currently. 

Lux: Yeah, for sure. 

Tony: Yeah. I’m not too hopeful, but who knows, right?

Lux: I’m not hopeful really, but…I’m not gonna hold my breath. But I do want to stay optimistic about it…So there’s, in the literature around first-gen students, there’s, I think, a lot of misunderstanding and kind of like a focus on what first-gen students don’t know. But we also know that a lot of continuing-generation students also don’t have these pieces of knowledge that they’re expected to, or that they’re assumed to. But I think that often first-gen students get characterized as not being as academically prepared, which is, I think, wildly incorrect. Like, if anybody is academically prepared for college, it’s legit all the first-gen students who I’ve met here. So do you feel like there…like that kind of very broad misunderstanding about there being, you know, like one first-generation student identity for starters, but like overall having kind of a deficit model view of first-gen students not knowing, you know, this unspoken curriculum of navigating higher ed. Do you feel like that had an impact on the way you felt about yourself as a student? 

Tony: Yeah, I would say that, I mean, there’s the good and the bad, like there’s pros and cons to everything. As a first gen student, it would feel amazing when someone’s like, “Oh, congratulations, you know, that’s no small feat that you’re here.” But I almost feel that sometimes, whether it’s staff or faculty, they almost bring some sort of condescending attitude where it could be in financial aid or certain resources. But I think that can be remedied by just really taking a step back and using a model where we find them where they’re at and ask them what they need. Instead of like, “Oh, here’s everything that we have,” instead of doing individual assessments and really understanding where you’re coming from and what exactly you need, just so it’s tailored to the specific student. 

Lux: I think that’s so important. Yeah, definitely. And now as a career coach, I mean, I’m sure you’re getting all kinds of insights into what those experiences look like for first-gen. So we can’t identify first gen students just by looking at them, of course, right? And a lot of faculty don’t really know much about the first-gen experience–or even what the designation means. Do you feel like your interactions with faculty reflected some sense of understanding about first-gen students, or were they kind of isolated from that? Did you find that faculty were good at recommending different resources or services? 

Tony: I think it’s a little bit tougher in most cases with either faculty or staff. I love preaching, being proactive, looking out for yourself. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Tony: And it’s a lot harder because we don’t have those resources or necessarily names to really go to. So I’m big on doing your research. If you need something, do everything possible to find it, whether it’s online or asking questions or finding the help desk at your school. You’re like, “Hey, I need help with this. If you’re not able to help, who may I talk to?” Because…and it’s a good point that faculty members or staff members can’t read minds, right? It’s all well-intentioned to be able to help out. I like how you said, of course, we can’t identify first-gen students just by looking at them. But I think it kind of goes both ways with being able to approach a faculty member, a staff member, like, hey, asking, or just asking for help and be like, “Hey, I need this. Do you know who I could talk to for this?” But also on the faculty or staff end, being like, “Hey, is there anything you need?”

Lux: Yeah. Do you feel like that happens a lot, or do you feel like it’s more student-driven than like a shared responsibility? 

Tony: I think it needs to happen more on both sides, really, where students have to be a little bit more…I don’t wanna say pushy, but just looking out for yourself. And I think it goes back to putting yourself in those spaces where maybe you’re not invited, but you wanna be like, “Hey, how does this work? Can you explain to me the financial aid process or this hold on my registration? Who can I talk to for that?” Instead of maybe waiting for someone to come get you about it. 

Lux: Yeah. 

Tony: And on the other end, being like, “Hey, this is how financial aid works. Do you need any assistance with this?” But just putting those announcements out there on both sides. 

Lux: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I think that one area of growth as a faculty member is for faculty to learn about the first-gen population that’s unique to our campus. Every semester it is, you know? There are so many identities that fall under that overarching designation of “first-gen” that often get erased by the label. So I think, yeah, I feel like we could definitely, as faculty, do a lot of learning about our students and should. 

Tony: I agree, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there’s no one size fits all approach. 

Lux: Yeah. And like you said, tailoring your services to your individual students…your one-on-one approach is so tailored to what the student needs. Instead of like, “Here’s all of the information about the university, whether it applies to you or not. Here’s the whole catalog of services or whatever.”

Tony: Because then you’re just asking them to filter out through everything.

Lux: Yeah. 

Tony: And that’s time consuming, that doesn’t really help. It’s not efficient.

Lux: Exactly. 

Tony: What we’re really good about, as career coaches–and that I’ve been lucky enough to see working there coming up on five months now–is we really find the students where they’re at. 

Lux: That’s so important. 

Tony: Yeah, when they book an appointment, they tell us a little bit about what they’re looking for, like career exploration. And that just sparks a conversation about, “Oh, Tony, how’s your semester been thus far? Any classes got to you?” or “What brings you in today?” 

Lux: Yeah.

Tony: And just being able to build rapport–a bridge to actually learning about them. Not Like, “What do you need? Resume? Here you go.”

Lux: Yeah!

Tony: It’s like actually building a relationship. 

Lux: Yeah, I think that’s so important and so valuable. 

Tony: Definitely. 

Lux: This is one of those ways where as faculty and staff, we can serve our students so much better if we care about that rapport and about relationship-building and stuff. Instead of just like, “What do you need? Let’s check that list off.”

Tony: Exactly. 

Lux: Yeah, I think that you make a really good point there. When you were in your bachelor’s program, do you think that your status as a first-gen student had an impact on your social or emotional wellbeing? 

Tony: Yeah, definitely both. I mean, Imposter Syndrome was a big thing for me, coupled with social anxiety. I mean, that’s not a good combination. 

Lux: Oh, high five. 

Tony: Yeah, high five. There you go. 

Lux: Yeah! Me, too. 

Tony: Right, yeah. Do you know how hard it is that in the moment, you’re not really thinking about what’s causing it? You’re just like…I don’t know, at least, I felt stuck with that. It held me back from even looking for internships, looking for opportunities to put myself out there. I was lucky to land an internship for my last year of college, but I think being mindful and building up your confidence helps a lot–back to finding that right group of people. I always preach quality over quantity with either a friend group or finding your people. Because those are your ride-or-dies, they say. 

Lux: Totally, yeah. 

Tony: Those will stick with you throughout the good times and the bad times, so they’ll learn about you. Or if you just try to find a group of 30 people, then they’re like, “Oh, do they really care about me?” And all this stuff, so just finding your people and being mindful of struggles that a lot of students are going through as well. [That] at least helped me a lot.

Lux: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. One thing that we hear a lot about on campus is–and I know this is an important part of the university’s value statement–is that we really want folks to feel a sense of belonging on campus. Certainly not speaking for all first-gen students, but in your experience as a first-gen student, did you feel a sense of belonging that was nurtured by the university? Or do you feel like you had to really build that for yourself? 

Tony: Like specifically just here at the U? 

Lux: For any part of your college experience, even in community college through today. 

Tony: Well, I would say that this applies to any higher ed institution. When there’s a commuter aspect to it, then that’s a whole different world, because I’ve been able to experience both the commuter and non-commuter, and there’s access to events, as living on campus or being close to campus, and spending most of your day here. But as a commuter, you really have to seek out those opportunities. 

Lux: Yeah, and plan in advance, right? 

Tony: Plan, yeah. So I remember that first semester, I’m glad I didn’t do this for long, but I was dropped off at like 5.30 a.m. 

Lux: Oh my goodness.

Tony: Wait a bit, work on homework or whatever, assignments until 6.50, that class started. I would have class off and on until 3.00 p.m., so I’d have moments to get lunch. 

Lux: That’s a long day, jeez. 

Tony: We had a Subway in our community college cafeteria, so I’m almost just sick of Subway because I’ve had it so many times. And then, oh my gosh, I will not forget just the smell of the Subway ingredients, walking in at like 5:30, 6:00 a.m. I’m like, I’m never eating this again. But I enjoyed it a lot…So I would have class off and on until like 3.00 p.m., I’d have an hour buffer. I would have my College Democrats club that I participated in. It was an exciting time for the primaries for the 2016 election. Really exciting, found a cool group of, then, like-minded people. And I would do the club. My mom would pick me up about 5:00, 5:10, and drop me off at work. I worked at an arcade. It’s called Round One. There’s actually one here in Sandy. 

Lux: Oh, nice. 

Tony: So it’s cool to like, I don’t know, get nostalgic, going down there. And so my shift would be, I’m not lying, it’d be 6.00 p.m. to 2.00 a.m. And then my dad worked the graveyard shift, so he would come pick me up like at 2.15. Luckily, I had the whole next day free, so I’d just sleep in, do homework or whatever. And yeah, so I think that was like Monday, Wednesday, Friday. That was my schedule. So Tuesday, Thursday, I had the free day, so. And I know my experience isn’t unique. Like a lot of first-gen students, we have that day-to-day experience. I had another one. I think this was toward my last semester in community college. I don’t know what’s up with me and working these late night jobs, but I worked at Winco Foods. My shift was, it was something crazy. It was like 10.00 p.m. to 7.00 a.m, stocking groceries. 

Lux: Wow. So incredibly active, physical work. 

Tony: Yeah, and respect to those workers, because I saw, like you have a box quota. Your boxes are counted how many you put out per hour, and those are the metrics. So a lot of pressure. One thing I really didn’t like from that job was the favoritism.And that’s even like I was one of the favorites, and I didn’t appreciate that because I had one of my friends working next to me, and we were talking to each other. And then one of the managers pulls up and tells my friend, like, “Hey, stop.Please stop talking.” 

Lux: “Get back to work.”

Tony: And it’s like, “Why was I not called out?” It’s like, okay, you know, favoritism, I just don’t appreciate that. I feel like everyone should be treated equally, which should have both gotten reprimanded. And that just kind of goes deeper to how much I value inclusivity, and equality, and equity, and making sure that that’s applied in everything I do. Certainly to this day with career coach appointments, I treat everybody the same, find them where they’re at, and know that we’re in their corner. So those late night jobs in college really pushed me to continue higher ed, and just trying to advance my skills and education and expertise. And then, so that shift would be 10 p.m. to 7 a.m., and then I would go to class at like 8:30 a.m. afterwards. 

Lux: Oh my goodness. What?

Tony: Don’t recommend it. If you want a much better situation than that, please stop by UCareer Success. We will help you with that. So that’s the plug for that. 

Lux: That’s a good plug. 

Tony: Don’t do what I did. 

Lux: Opportune, yeah. So were you full-time when you were in your undergrad? 

Tony: Yes, I was full-time even, yeah, community college and undergrad. 

Lux: Dang, and oh my goodness, the whole work-school balance is definitely…I think there’s some learning curve there.

Tony: Totally, totally. 

Lux: But I do think that like, those of us who worked through school,like, yeah, you learn an awful lot about time management really rapidly, right?

Tony: Totally, yeah. 

Lux: So we’re just about to wrap up. I did want to ask you one last question.

Tony: Yeah.

Lux: And you can answer this from any perspective, and I’m sure that lots of different pieces will come into play with your work now as a career coach. If you were to talk to a first-gen–a potential first-gen student–what kind of advice or words of wisdom or support would you have for them? 

Tony: Yeah, I would say be relentless about recognizing how proud of yourself you should be. You know, kind of recognize how much work you’ve put in to get where you are right now. And there’s gonna be external expectations. You should study this or find this job. But ultimately, you’re gonna have those conversations with yourself. “Is this something I really want to do?” Because, you know, college is only a window of time in your life. You should maximize that and invest in yourself to get to a job, or career, or somewhere that you enjoy and kind of checks off all those boxes of your priorities and what you’re looking for. So you’re gonna get expectations from maybe a parent or guardian, from society, from maybe a friend. But if it’s not something that you wanna do, then, I mean, don’t do it. You can try different things, see what’s out there, get a feel of everything. I would say, stay open-minded. And if something sounds interesting to you, please pursue it. Give it a shot and then see how you feel afterwards because you’re either gonna love it, or you’re gonna learn from it either way. 

Lux: That’s a really great way to phrase it too. Like even if you don’t love it, you will learn from it. Something about yourself generally, too. Oh man, yeah. I think that family expectation can be pretty weighty, too, so I love what you said about having those conversations with yourself as well. 

Tony: Yeah. 

Lux: Like your perspective does matter, right? You know, it’s your future.

Tony: And even the family expectations, it comes from a good place.

Lux: Absolutely. 

Tony: Your parents or whoever, you know, took care of you, wants the best for you. But sometimes there’s just something that gets lost in communication where, maybe I don’t wanna study this just because it’s, like, the max amount of money. Maybe I wanna, you know, be a career coach instead of leaning on a finance and econ degree right now. Like I don’t see myself working for the Goldman Sachs of the world. It’s fine if you do…I think that’s a solid option. But you should, you know, prioritize yourself. And you’re gonna be working those jobs, not your parents. Yes, it’s all about yourself in that case. 

Lux: I think that’s a really important thing that we don’t very often talk about because there are so many pressures to pick a certain field, maybe, like you mentioned, or earn a certain amount of money, or connect with certain groups of people. But yeah, your university experience is your own. I really love that advice. That’s so important. 

Tony: Thank you. It’s just good to catch it early if you can. Just be mindful of all that, and slow down a bit. You know, there’s a lot of time. I’m 26, so depending on who you ask, I’m either young or old at this point. You know, I’m old to the early 20s, and I’m young to the older adults. So everyone’s on their different timeframe, and just give yourself some leeway and some grace. Don’t be too hard on yourself. You’ve made it this far. You can keep going.

Lux: Absolutely, yeah. Well, thank you so much for talking with me. 

Tony: Yeah, thank you, Lux.